Can someone explain the allure of Seiko to a Patek, AP, and VC guy?

[jag32]

I’ve been collecting for years, I have multiple Pateks, AP, Vacheron, etc. and whether justified or not, I always just lumped Seiko in with the others like Casio and Timex. But over the years I kept hearing well respected collectors refer to Seiko and I just never really understood it. Can someone on here please explain to me the allure of Seiko to someone who is a WIS. What makes Seiko special? Why do people with Pateks etc. also collect Seiko? Please explain to me what I’ve been missing in my collecting all these years. What are the most popular Seiko pieces?

[Coop13]

Originally Posted by jag32

I’ve been collecting for years, I have multiple Pateks, AP, Vacheron, etc. and whether justified or not, I always just lumped Seiko in with the others like Casio and Timex. But over the years I kept hearing well respected collectors refer to Seiko and I just never really understood it. Can someone on here please explain to me the allure of Seiko to someone who is a WIS. What makes Seiko special? Why do people with Pateks etc. also collect Seiko? Please explain to me what I’ve been missing in my collecting all these years. What are the most popular Seiko pieces?

Perhaps see my “ruined by my turtle” post, for a small glimpse. Seiko is just like any other watch brand, but at the price point they’re tough to beat. Their iconic dive watches can elicit the same feelings as a Rolex sub. I shouldn’t really be comparing seiko to Rolex, but you’re asking about a holy trinity guy appreciating Seiko so I guess that’s the best I can do.
Buy one and try it out. I have an SRP777 and a grand seiko SBGW231. My 777 is a lot of fun and I don’t care if it gets dinged up.


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[Lgear080]

Put on a $250 prospex shell diver and get back to me. Tons of bang for the buck. I’m not personally a fan of the grand line, but only bc I don’t dabble in dress watches.

[Old Expat Beast]

Maybe it’s worth mentioning the heritage side, too. The original run of Grand and Kind Seikos throughout the early 1960s to mid 1970s was phenomenal. Through these sub-brands, Seiko introduced hacking movements, quickset dates and double quickset day-dates years ahead of Rolex and other Swiss brands. They also made the world’s most accurate mechanical movements that blew away the Swiss watch brands at the Swiss chronometer competitions, where the Swiss were putting up quartz movements against Seiko’s mechanicals at the end, before they cancelled the competitions altogether.

This short video explains it well: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayUT5WfkHrA&t

Sadly, the Japanese market went crazy for quartz and Grand Seiko went into hibernation from around 1975 till 1988, and its worthy counterpart King Seiko never returned (apart from one heritage release in the year 2000).

If they'd gone international the first time around, who knows what might have happened.

[Old Expat Beast]

Here's a cool graphic with some interesting facts: https://www.fratellowatches.com/10-t...o-infographic/

[icnbne]

A brand that is vertically integrated, is older than rolex, has won numerous accuracy awards-at one point put the swiss industry to its knees, makes innovative movements, has some of the best finishing in the mass market

All at a cost that cant be beat

My sla019: 5k aud, 116600: 14k aud
The sla is superior in so many ways

[Pongster]

In my collection, PP VC and AP (even rolex and omega) live happily with Seiko (even GS and seiko5).

Seiko is all about fine watchmaking. Just like other brands mentioned.

So if you like fine watches, consider Seiko.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jag32

I’ve been collecting for years, I have multiple Pateks, AP, Vacheron, etc. and whether justified or not, I always just lumped Seiko in with the others like Casio and Timex. But over the years I kept hearing well respected collectors refer to Seiko and I just never really understood it. Can someone on here please explain to me the allure of Seiko to someone who is a WIS. What makes Seiko special? Why do people with Pateks etc. also collect Seiko? Please explain to me what I’ve been missing in my collecting all these years. What are the most popular Seiko pieces?

You are most definitely not a WIS, in any sense of the meaning.
Even with the wealth of information online, including You Tube, you’re still oblivious to Seiko’s position within horology? And now you’re wanting a crash course on why you should be even considering a Grand Seiko?

Instead of having us do your homework for you, why not take the time to learn and clue yourself up, so that when you have, you’ll know whether it’s a brand you feel you should be bothering with. You might decide after it all that you’ve not been missing out, so there’ll be no need to change the status quo.

Whilst the above may seem harsh… I’m a firm believer in doing one’s own research to advance their knowledge, and deciding for oneself, based upon that, if there’s anything worth pursuing further.

[77T]

The answer is the same as the one that led you to buy a Marathon GSAR in May...

Seiko builds watches that work. GS is especially fine.


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[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by PJ S

You are most definitely not a WIS, in any sense of the meaning.
Even with the wealth of information online, including You Tube, you’re still oblivious to Seiko’s position within horology? And now you’re wanting a crash course on why you should be even considering a Grand Seiko?

Instead of having us do your homework for you, why not take the time to learn and clue yourself up, so that when you have, you’ll know whether it’s a brand you feel you should be bothering with. You might decide after it all that you’ve not been missing out, so there’ll be no need to change the status quo.

Whilst the above may seem harsh… I’m a firm believer in doing one’s own research to advance their knowledge, and deciding for oneself, based upon that, if there’s anything worth pursuing further.

Be nice. He asked politely for opinions and answers in a Seiko forum. No need to tear the guy down and tell him how you think he should be researching, or what you're a "firm believer" in.

[Jostack]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Be nice. He asked politely for opinions and answers in a Seiko forum. No need to tear the guy down and tell him how you think he should be researching, or what you're a "firm believer" in.

I agree with you.

I’ve always been ‘interested’ in wristwatches since I was a young boy. I knew what a Rolex was by the age of 9 or so. I don’t remember how exactly, but I’m sure I heard the adults talk about it.

I spent $500 on a Casio Oceanus for my first ‘real’ watch in my 20’s. I still have it and admire it often. I stumbled along with a god awful tank of an invicta at some point. Still have it as well, but less admired. Then I started studying more earnestly and while it was clear that Swiss watchmaking was the leader of the pack, Seiko was always mentioned here and there. More often as the cause of the ‘quartz crisis’, true or not, but I never got the impression that Seiko was highly regarded by anyone. I often wonder what things would look like today if the Swiss would have embraced quartz? To me it seems like the whole watch industry pushed very aggressively against quartz and the Japanese watch companies, and their influence significantly tarnished public perception of the Japanese watchmaking industry to the point that even today, all but the very informed believe that Seiko, and any other Japanese brand is cheap and of inferior quality.

I’m not saying the general public are stupid or ignorant, but marketing is very powerful. Marketing=Propaganda. The political and social environments in those days were very different, and ripe for the backlash that occurred.

I think because of the evolution of the watch industry from pocket watches to now, there is still a lot of the history that most of us grew up with, wether we realize it or not, that colors our perception of ‘other than Swiss’ watches.

The general practitioner that has cared for me and my family’s health for the last 40 years wears a Seiko. It is simple and beautiful. He absolutely can afford a Rolex.

My drivel is not to knock any watch company or promote another. But sometimes it is hard to move out of your comfort zone and look at things from a different perspective. Things aren’t always what they seem.

If you have the means to have any kind of claim to a ‘watch collection’ maybe you should spend $500 on a Seiko and live with it for a few days. Get out the loupe and be critical. No, it is not a Rolex. But I think you may be surprised by the offering from a value perspective.


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[Old Expat Beast]

Yeah, it's kind of ironic that Seiko's flagship brands Grand Seiko and King Seiko fell victim to the quartz crisis as well as many Swiss firms, but the Swiss were developing quartz in the earliest days too, it's just that Seiko was better at mass production and global marketing.

[Jostack]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Yeah, it's kind of ironic that Seiko's flagship brands Grand Seiko and King Seiko fell victim to the quartz crisis as well as many Swiss firms, but the Swiss were developing quartz in the earliest days too, it's just that Seiko was better at mass production and global marketing.

It is very Ironic. And while I don’t have the resources to have $20k+ pieces of any ‘horologically significance’, I think those that do, really do have a broader perspective on the history of the wristwatch industry as a whole. I personally have a laughable ‘collection‘. I don’t consider it really a collection, I have a few watches. For what is reasonable to me, I often look for a Seiko that piques my interest. It hasn’t happened in quite a while , but it is on the table. I’ll confess, I’m really lusting for the new YM rhodium/blue...

[imperio]

Originally Posted by Jostack

I agree with you.

I’ve always been ‘interested’ in wristwatches since I was a young boy. I knew what a Rolex was by the age of 9 or so. I don’t remember how exactly, but I’m sure I heard the adults talk about it.

I spent $500 on a Casio Oceanus for my first ‘real’ watch in my 20’s. I still have it and admire it often. I stumbled along with a god awful tank of an invicta at some point. Still have it as well, but less admired. Then I started studying more earnestly and while it was clear that Swiss watchmaking was the leader of the pack, Seiko was always mentioned here and there. More often as the cause of the ‘quartz crisis’, true or not, but I never got the impression that Seiko was highly regarded by anyone. I often wonder what things would look like today if the Swiss would have embraced quartz? To me it seems like the whole watch industry pushed very aggressively against quartz and the Japanese watch companies, and their influence significantly tarnished public perception of the Japanese watchmaking industry to the point that even today, all but the very informed believe that Seiko, and any other Japanese brand is cheap and of inferior quality.

I’m not saying the general public are stupid or ignorant, but marketing is very powerful. Marketing=Propaganda. The political and social environments in those days were very different, and ripe for the backlash that occurred.

I think because of the evolution of the watch industry from pocket watches to now, there is still a lot of the history that most of us grew up with, wether we realize it or not, that colors our perception of ‘other than Swiss’ watches.

The general practitioner that has cared for me and my family’s health for the last 40 years wears a Seiko. It is simple and beautiful. He absolutely can afford a Rolex.

My drivel is not to knock any watch company or promote another. But sometimes it is hard to move out of your comfort zone and look at things from a different perspective. Things aren’t always what they seem.

If you have the means to have any kind of claim to a ‘watch collection’ maybe you should spend $500 on a Seiko and live with it for a few days. Get out the loupe and be critical. No, it is not a Rolex. But I think you may be surprised by the offering from a value perspective.


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Totally agree on the marketing part. Rolex is a marketing genius, I'll give them that.

[jag32]

Originally Posted by PJ S

You are most definitely not a WIS, in any sense of the meaning.
Even with the wealth of information online, including You Tube, you’re still oblivious to Seiko’s position within horology? And now you’re wanting a crash course on why you should be even considering a Grand Seiko?

Instead of having us do your homework for you, why not take the time to learn and clue yourself up, so that when you have, you’ll know whether it’s a brand you feel you should be bothering with. You might decide after it all that you’ve not been missing out, so there’ll be no need to change the status quo.

Whilst the above may seem harsh… I’m a firm believer in doing one’s own research to advance their knowledge, and deciding for oneself, based upon that, if there’s anything worth pursuing further.

Damn. I came here looking for honest opinions, not Sharia Law. Would never get a response like that in the Patek and AP forums on here. So much for being an ambassador for the brand. I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got if that’s the reception one gets in the Seiko forum who is truly interested in the brand. Peace.

[jag32]

Originally Posted by 77T

The answer is the same as the one that led you to buy a Marathon GSAR in May...

Seiko builds watches that work. GS is especially fine.


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I actually returned the GSAR. It was gaining 30 seconds a day, looked great but just a terrible watch. Upon research after I had the issue I learned this was pretty common. Definitely not a premium watch, the military should get their money back as I’m sure they’ve given a ton to Marathon.

I have a lot of confidence in Japanese engineering. Everything is over engineered in a good way, even Japanese single malt whiskey. It’s perfection

[icnbne]

Originally Posted by jag32

Damn. I came here looking for honest opinions, not Sharia Law. Would never get a response like that in the Patek and AP forums on here. So much for being an ambassador for the brand. I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got if that’s the reception one gets in the Seiko forum who is truly interested in the brand. Peace.

yep, ignore all the other comments just to be butt hurt by the one that calls you lazy

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by jag32

Damn. I came here looking for honest opinions, not Sharia Law. Would never get a response like that in the Patek and AP forums on here. So much for being an ambassador for the brand. I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got if that’s the reception one gets in the Seiko forum who is truly interested in the brand. Peace.

Stick around. He spends more time in the Patek and AP forums than he does in the Seiko forum. It's usually friendlier here than in those two, believe me

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jag32

Damn. I came here looking for honest opinions, not Sharia Law. Would never get a response like that in the Patek and AP forums on here. So much for being an ambassador for the brand. I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got if that’s the reception one gets in the Seiko forum who is truly interested in the brand. Peace.

You would’ve got the same reply if you’d asked a similar question in those sub-forums too.

My point was that if you can research Franck Muller enough to quell your interest in one of theirs, you can do the same for any and all brands you’ve heard mentioned.
Doing things for yourself brings much more satisfaction and reward than simply following what others tell you to do.
Therefore, when you’ve spent the time reading and looking at Grand Seiko photos online in general (not just here) then you’ll have an idea if any floats your boat (or in your case, flies your plane) and what it is that’s drawing you towards them – accuracy of the 9F quartz, the faster tick-tock of the Hi-Beat, or the silence and gliding motion of the seconds hand of the Spring Drives.

I was a bit harsh early, but for good reason – it’s not something you can condense into a short(ish) post that allows someone to think they have a handle on the brand.
I know you’re on a bit of a mission with the 15300 and the BP FF, but there is absolutely no rush to land a GS until you’re familiar with the offerings (current and a bit older, including the LEs).

[oldman2005]

Everyman should have more than one pair of shoes, I don't wear my dressed shoes to hiking, nor mountain biking, or vice versa. There're watches for different purposes: Rolex to nice parties/meetings and Seiko for hammering on the trails, working on cars,.. it shows practicality and style.

Sure you can wear your Patek on the trails just like my wife wearing her Chanel high heels to the park (she doesn't), what's the point and style in that?

Seiko diver watches are iconic and there's a history behind them, educate yourself with history of tuna watches on youtube.

[CNDguy]

Originally Posted by icnbne

yep, ignore all the other comments just to be butt hurt by the one that calls you lazy

So true man! Good point

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by jag32

Damn. I came here looking for honest opinions, not Sharia Law. Would never get a response like that in the Patek and AP forums on here. So much for being an ambassador for the brand. I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got if that’s the reception one gets in the Seiko forum who is truly interested in the brand. Peace.

How old are you if you dont mind me asking?

[pickettt]

If one is really about THE WATCH, and not the luxury, marketing, and hype...Seiko cannot be ignored.

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by pickettt

If one is really about THE WATCH, and not the luxury, marketing, and hype...Seiko cannot be ignored.

Plus one.

And seiko has been around long enough and everywhere for any watch guy not to be aware of it.

That said, one just has to handle the merchandise to realize the allure.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by jag32

Damn. I came here looking for honest opinions, not Sharia Law. Would never get a response like that in the Patek and AP forums on here. So much for being an ambassador for the brand. I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got if that’s the reception one gets in the Seiko forum who is truly interested in the brand. Peace.

Well, there are a wealth of information online nowadays on GS, they are easy to find. I think if you came with a question on specific models you will get better responses instead of just asking I collect AP, PP, and etc., what’s so good about Seiko?

It sounded condescending as if Seiko collectors needed to convince you that Seiko is worthy to be part of your collection.

[daveathall]

I would just go and look at one. Then you'll know.

[zengineer]

You just need to go look at some. The appeal is the level of finish, unique design esthetic and some very unique dial finishes.

But in another thread you were looking for help filling your watch box and mentioned that Rolex was too mass produced or mainstream for you. So first you need to accept that Grand Seiko is different from regular seiko you'll never buy one anyhow. If I was in your shoes trying to round out a several hundred thousand dollar collection I'd get over the Rolex bias and buy a few of them and a Grand Seiko dive watch. Or go to Watchbuys and look at a few smaller German brands like Dornbluth & Sohn.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Here's a cool graphic with some interesting facts: https://www.fratellowatches.com/10-t...o-infographic/

Adam, thank you for this post

Some very interesting snippets of information there for sure. I hadn’t heard of Credor before now. Very informative

[hdrazor251]

Originally Posted by pickettt

If one is really about THE WATCH, and not the luxury, marketing, and hype...Seiko cannot be ignored.

Well said.

[SeikoBake]

One way to get into Seiko is to try their hallmark SKX007J. Make sure to buy the made in “Japan” version, and outfit with a stainless MilTAT strap. This is how I caught the Seiko bug....