Can someone explain the allure of Seiko to a Patek, AP, and VC guy?

[Locust]

One of these cost me $425. One cost $24,000. One is a work of art and I feel special with it on. But one has a shark’s tail second hand. A G** D*** shark’s tail. Not sure which makes me happier but I lean towards the latter.


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[CalSRQ1]

Originally Posted by Locust

One of these cost me $425. One cost $24,000. One is a work of art and I feel special with it on. But one has a shark’s tail second hand. A G** D*** shark’s tail. Not sure which makes me happier but I lean towards the latter.


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love the sharks tail.

[Pongster]

Never noticed that second hand before. Now making me think. Hmmm.

[the_natural]

Originally Posted by pickettt

If one is really about THE WATCH, and not the luxury, marketing, and hype...Seiko cannot be ignored.

This.

[SixTee2]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

...ironic that Seiko's flagship brands Grand Seiko and King Seiko fell victim to the quartz crisis as well as many Swiss firms, but the Swiss were developing quartz in the earliest days too, it's just that Seiko was better at mass production and global marketing.

In several ways Seiko created the crisis and in the process, became the world's largest watch manufacturer, not a victim at all.

[SixTee2]

Originally Posted by jag32

I’ve been collecting for years, I have multiple Pateks, AP, Vacheron, etc. and whether justified or not, I always just lumped Seiko in with the others like Casio and Timex. But over the years I kept hearing well respected collectors refer to Seiko and I just never really understood it. Can someone on here please explain to me the allure of Seiko to someone who is a WIS. What makes Seiko special? Why do people with Pateks etc. also collect Seiko? Please explain to me what I’ve been missing in my collecting all these years. What are the most popular Seiko pieces?

What makes Seiko special? Performance, innovation and quality.

Pick up a Credor, any of the favorites you mention plus a loupe, then compare. You'll quickly discover that's unfair, so step down to a Grand Seiko and repeat. After detecting equivalent or even superior dial and hands work on the Grand Seiko models, examine movements. Bridge and plate edges & polish, screw countersinks, screws themselves, perlage and striping. Then look at prices.

If the respective movements were disassembled and examined under even microscopes, the Grand Seiko movements fare quite well. The biggest difference will be the absence of gold rotors for Seikos.

Turn to movement accuracy, reliability and durability; all Seiko movements match or often outperform their competitors in each price range. Inexpensive Seiko automatics (a $100 watch or less) will run reliably and accurately every day for 10-15 years with no service. The higher up the food chain, the better the features and durability.

Only two manufacturers make 5 beat automatics anymore, Seiko and Zenith (the movement Rolex used in Daytonas for a long time, but SLOWED DOWN beats)

Seiko's Spring Drive is the most accurate mainspring driven movement in the world by a BIG margin.

Rolex are admired - correctly - for making strong & durable watches. Under equivalent use, impacts will be resisted even better by a Grand Seiko, any two equivalent models (meaning size and complications).

Moving down the range to mid level Seikos, 8-10 of them can be bought for the price of 1 (one) Rolex for example, yet approach the quality, accuracy, reliability and durability of many watches which cost 5 to 7 times as much.

Find a GS dealer, go look. Doubt every word I've just written.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by Locust

One of these cost me $425. One cost $24,000. One is a work of art and I feel special with it on. But one has a shark’s tail second hand. A G** D*** shark’s tail. Not sure which makes me happier but I lean towards the latter.


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and don't forget that dorsal fin peeking out of the waves by the "8" marker...

[patrolmi]

Spring drive movement for me. Smoothest sweep in the watch world.

[patrolmi]

Originally Posted by asiparks

and don't forget that dorsal fin peeking out of the waves by the "8" marker...

What model is that seiko?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by SixTee2

In several ways Seiko created the crisis and in the process, became the world's largest watch manufacturer, not a victim at all.

Read my post again. I said that the King Seiko and Grand Seiko mechanical lines ironically fell victm to the quartz crisis that Seiko largely created, as they were discontinued (permanently for KS, and many years for GS) in the mid 1970s. I wasn't talking about Seiko itself as a company falling victim.

[Jostack]

Originally Posted by SixTee2

In several ways Seiko created the crisis and in the process, became the world's largest watch manufacturer, not a victim at all.

Grand Seiko and King Seiko are the brands referenced as having fallen victim. Not quite the same as Seiko. I don’t think anyone would argue that Seiko as a whole did not benefit from the ‘quartz crisis’. It is probably not accurate to characterize it as created by Seiko though. There were many players contributing to developing quartz movements. They weren’t all successful.


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[Locust]

Originally Posted by patrolmi

What model is that seiko?

SRPD21. Save the ocean turtle v.3

[jag32]

Originally Posted by SixTee2

What makes Seiko special? Performance, innovation and quality.

Pick up a Credor, any of the favorites you mention plus a loupe, then compare. You'll quickly discover that's unfair, so step down to a Grand Seiko and repeat. After detecting equivalent or even superior dial and hands work on the Grand Seiko models, examine movements. Bridge and plate edges & polish, screw countersinks, screws themselves, perlage and striping. Then look at prices.

If the respective movements were disassembled and examined under even microscopes, the Grand Seiko movements fare quite well. The biggest difference will be the absence of gold rotors for Seikos.

Turn to movement accuracy, reliability and durability; all Seiko movements match or often outperform their competitors in each price range. Inexpensive Seiko automatics (a $100 watch or less) will run reliably and accurately every day for 10-15 years with no service. The higher up the food chain, the better the features and durability.

Only two manufacturers make 5 beat automatics anymore, Seiko and Zenith (the movement Rolex used in Daytonas for a long time, but SLOWED DOWN beats)

Seiko's Spring Drive is the most accurate mainspring driven movement in the world by a BIG margin.

Rolex are admired - correctly - for making strong & durable watches. Under equivalent use, impacts will be resisted even better by a Grand Seiko, any two equivalent models (meaning size and complications).

Moving down the range to mid level Seikos, 8-10 of them can be bought for the price of 1 (one) Rolex for example, yet approach the quality, accuracy, reliability and durability of many watches which cost 5 to 7 times as much.

Find a GS dealer, go look. Doubt every word I've just written.

Thank you for that, it is quite helpful as I increase my knowledge on GS. I found a GS dealer about 1.5 hours away, will try and head there at some point.

[jcarm981]

Be careful they are addictive.

[patrolmi]

Originally Posted by Locust

SRPD21. Save the ocean turtle v.3

Just what I needed!! Thank you. Seiko is the greatest bargain for mechanical watches.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by patrolmi

What model is that seiko?

SRPD21 – the Save The Ocean Great White Shark edition.
There’s two versions, the international one, with black/blue bezel insert, and the domestic market variant with grey/blue insert.

[RamyAshour]

Check out this podcast on Hodinkee, where founder Ben Clymer says that some guy working for Patek says that Patek should be embarrased by their level of craftmanship compared to that of GrandSeiko at similar price points. Pretty awesome.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ho...-four-om-malik

At around 13:00 min in

[SUPERDOC]

I suppose it all depends on how your watch collecting journey evolved... if you started collecting watches after achieving a great deal of financial freedom, and just wanted to "fit in with the cool kids" sporting PP/AP/Rolex, then I can understand the lack of interest in Seiko.

For those of us who have always loved watches, and always bought he best watch we could afford, Our journey would almost invariably have taken us through Seiko..

As the ability to spend more evolved, we may have gotten into other brands...

At least for myself, going from broke watch loving student, to broke watch loving med student, to semi-broke watch loving resident, to barely out of debt fresh Doc, to well established veteran physician, my collection started with Seiko 5, and hand-me-down Seikos, but can now boast PP, AP, VC, UN, Breguet, multiple Rolex/Omega etc etc...

Along that journey, if rooted in an unwavering love of watches, we learn about the history of each brand that we would consider buying, and the contributions of each brand to the world of Horology.

The challenging part is being brutally honest with yourself, when you have to admit that a seiko Turtle feels a hell of a lot like an Omega Seamaster on the wrist...

I respect Seiko more than any other brand for the pride they take, even in making the entry level brands... it lets me know that the Pride I felt in wearing it, and the Pride my Grandfather felt in receiving a Seiko for his 25 yr Return of Service watch, was well intended.

Although now that I can indulge in almost any brand, I still find myself drawn to their watchmaking philosophy... and with the Grand Seiko, I can honestly say that the details and finishing, and "wrist feel" is on par, or surpasses the "Trilogy"..

How can you not love a brand that is obsessively passionate about being the best in the business, and offering the best quality of product at the most fair price possible to the end-user??

If you love watches, it shouldn't be a mystery... if you love "flexing" then it becomes the worlds greatest enigma as to Why anyone who could flex a PP would choose to wear a $500 Seiko...

[steve099]

Originally Posted by jag32

I’ve been collecting for years, I have multiple Pateks, AP, Vacheron, etc. and whether justified or not, I always just lumped Seiko in with the others like Casio and Timex. But over the years I kept hearing well respected collectors refer to Seiko and I just never really understood it. Can someone on here please explain to me the allure of Seiko to someone who is a WIS. What makes Seiko special? Why do people with Pateks etc. also collect Seiko? Please explain to me what I’ve been missing in my collecting all these years. What are the most popular Seiko pieces?

The Japanese are a culture that takes a lot of pride in what they do and when they do something high end, just about anything high end they tend to do it extremely well. I have verified this across the following areas;

1. Whisky
2. HiFi
3. Food
4. Nihonto (swords, which I also collect/study)
5. Cars
6. Art


This also applies to the Grand Seiko watches.

There is a fair chunk of love and obsession in what they do and it tends to show.

GS is also not priced in the upper atmosphere so its far more but not overly accessible. And also extremely accurate when it comes to time keeping.

That's my take on it.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

I suppose it all depends on how your watch collecting journey evolved... if you started collecting watches after achieving a great deal of financial freedom, and just wanted to "fit in with the cool kids" sporting PP/AP/Rolex, then I can understand the lack of interest in Seiko.

For those of us who have always loved watches, and always bought he best watch we could afford, Our journey would almost invariably have taken us through Seiko..

As the ability to spend more evolved, we may have gotten into other brands...

At least for myself, going from broke watch loving student, to broke watch loving med student, to semi-broke watch loving resident, to barely out of debt fresh Doc, to well established veteran physician, my collection started with Seiko 5, and hand-me-down Seikos, but can now boast PP, AP, VC, UN, Breguet, multiple Rolex/Omega etc etc...

Along that journey, if rooted in an unwavering love of watches, we learn about the history of each brand that we would consider buying, and the contributions of each brand to the world of Horology.

The challenging part is being brutally honest with yourself, when you have to admit that a seiko Turtle feels a hell of a lot like an Omega Seamaster on the wrist...

I respect Seiko more than any other brand for the pride they take, even in making the entry level brands... it lets me know that the Pride I felt in wearing it, and the Pride my Grandfather felt in receiving a Seiko for his 25 yr Return of Service watch, was well intended.

Although now that I can indulge in almost any brand, I still find myself drawn to their watchmaking philosophy... and with the Grand Seiko, I can honestly say that the details and finishing, and "wrist feel" is on par, or surpasses the "Trilogy"..

How can you not love a brand that is obsessively passionate about being the best in the business, and offering the best quality of product at the most fair price possible to the end-user??

If you love watches, it shouldn't be a mystery... if you love "flexing" then it becomes the worlds greatest enigma as to Why anyone who could flex a PP would choose to wear a $500 Seiko...

Great post

[jag32]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

I suppose it all depends on how your watch collecting journey evolved... if you started collecting watches after achieving a great deal of financial freedom, and just wanted to "fit in with the cool kids" sporting PP/AP/Rolex, then I can understand the lack of interest in Seiko.

For those of us who have always loved watches, and always bought he best watch we could afford, Our journey would almost invariably have taken us through Seiko..

As the ability to spend more evolved, we may have gotten into other brands...

At least for myself, going from broke watch loving student, to broke watch loving med student, to semi-broke watch loving resident, to barely out of debt fresh Doc, to well established veteran physician, my collection started with Seiko 5, and hand-me-down Seikos, but can now boast PP, AP, VC, UN, Breguet, multiple Rolex/Omega etc etc...

Along that journey, if rooted in an unwavering love of watches, we learn about the history of each brand that we would consider buying, and the contributions of each brand to the world of Horology.

The challenging part is being brutally honest with yourself, when you have to admit that a seiko Turtle feels a hell of a lot like an Omega Seamaster on the wrist...

I respect Seiko more than any other brand for the pride they take, even in making the entry level brands... it lets me know that the Pride I felt in wearing it, and the Pride my Grandfather felt in receiving a Seiko for his 25 yr Return of Service watch, was well intended.

Although now that I can indulge in almost any brand, I still find myself drawn to their watchmaking philosophy... and with the Grand Seiko, I can honestly say that the details and finishing, and "wrist feel" is on par, or surpasses the "Trilogy"..

How can you not love a brand that is obsessively passionate about being the best in the business, and offering the best quality of product at the most fair price possible to the end-user??

If you love watches, it shouldn't be a mystery... if you love "flexing" then it becomes the worlds greatest enigma as to Why anyone who could flex a PP would choose to wear a $500 Seiko...

Thank you for that, it was quite insightful hearing this. Which Grand Seikos are in your collection?

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

I suppose it all depends on how your watch collecting journey evolved... if you started collecting watches after achieving a great deal of financial freedom, and just wanted to "fit in with the cool kids" sporting PP/AP/Rolex, then I can understand the lack of interest in Seiko.

For those of us who have always loved watches, and always bought he best watch we could afford, Our journey would almost invariably have taken us through Seiko..

As the ability to spend more evolved, we may have gotten into other brands...

At least for myself, going from broke watch loving student, to broke watch loving med student, to semi-broke watch loving resident, to barely out of debt fresh Doc, to well established veteran physician, my collection started with Seiko 5, and hand-me-down Seikos, but can now boast PP, AP, VC, UN, Breguet, multiple Rolex/Omega etc etc...

Along that journey, if rooted in an unwavering love of watches, we learn about the history of each brand that we would consider buying, and the contributions of each brand to the world of Horology.

The challenging part is being brutally honest with yourself, when you have to admit that a seiko Turtle feels a hell of a lot like an Omega Seamaster on the wrist...

I respect Seiko more than any other brand for the pride they take, even in making the entry level brands... it lets me know that the Pride I felt in wearing it, and the Pride my Grandfather felt in receiving a Seiko for his 25 yr Return of Service watch, was well intended.

Although now that I can indulge in almost any brand, I still find myself drawn to their watchmaking philosophy... and with the Grand Seiko, I can honestly say that the details and finishing, and "wrist feel" is on par, or surpasses the "Trilogy"..

How can you not love a brand that is obsessively passionate about being the best in the business, and offering the best quality of product at the most fair price possible to the end-user??

If you love watches, it shouldn't be a mystery... if you love "flexing" then it becomes the worlds greatest enigma as to Why anyone who could flex a PP would choose to wear a $500 Seiko...

Couldnt have said it any better.

[111forza]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

I suppose it all depends on how your watch collecting journey evolved... if you started collecting watches after achieving a great deal of financial freedom, and just wanted to "fit in with the cool kids" sporting PP/AP/Rolex, then I can understand the lack of interest in Seiko.

For those of us who have always loved watches, and always bought he best watch we could afford, Our journey would almost invariably have taken us through Seiko..

As the ability to spend more evolved, we may have gotten into other brands...

At least for myself, going from broke watch loving student, to broke watch loving med student, to semi-broke watch loving resident, to barely out of debt fresh Doc, to well established veteran physician, my collection started with Seiko 5, and hand-me-down Seikos, but can now boast PP, AP, VC, UN, Breguet, multiple Rolex/Omega etc etc...

Along that journey, if rooted in an unwavering love of watches, we learn about the history of each brand that we would consider buying, and the contributions of each brand to the world of Horology.

The challenging part is being brutally honest with yourself, when you have to admit that a seiko Turtle feels a hell of a lot like an Omega Seamaster on the wrist...

I respect Seiko more than any other brand for the pride they take, even in making the entry level brands... it lets me know that the Pride I felt in wearing it, and the Pride my Grandfather felt in receiving a Seiko for his 25 yr Return of Service watch, was well intended.

Although now that I can indulge in almost any brand, I still find myself drawn to their watchmaking philosophy... and with the Grand Seiko, I can honestly say that the details and finishing, and "wrist feel" is on par, or surpasses the "Trilogy"..

How can you not love a brand that is obsessively passionate about being the best in the business, and offering the best quality of product at the most fair price possible to the end-user??

If you love watches, it shouldn't be a mystery... if you love "flexing" then it becomes the worlds greatest enigma as to Why anyone who could flex a PP would choose to wear a $500 Seiko...

SAY NO MORE

[Muxi]

Originally Posted by tom2517

Well, there are a wealth of information online nowadays on GS, they are easy to find. I think if you came with a question on specific models you will get better responses instead of just asking I collect AP, PP, and etc., what’s so good about Seiko?

It sounded condescending as if Seiko collectors needed to convince you that Seiko is worthy to be part of your collection.

Agree. And good catch Sir.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

I suppose it all depends on how your watch collecting journey evolved... if you started collecting watches after achieving a great deal of financial freedom, and just wanted to "fit in with the cool kids" sporting PP/AP/Rolex, then I can understand the lack of interest in Seiko.

For those of us who have always loved watches, and always bought he best watch we could afford, Our journey would almost invariably have taken us through Seiko..

As the ability to spend more evolved, we may have gotten into other brands...

At least for myself, going from broke watch loving student, to broke watch loving med student, to semi-broke watch loving resident, to barely out of debt fresh Doc, to well established veteran physician, my collection started with Seiko 5, and hand-me-down Seikos, but can now boast PP, AP, VC, UN, Breguet, multiple Rolex/Omega etc etc...

Along that journey, if rooted in an unwavering love of watches, we learn about the history of each brand that we would consider buying, and the contributions of each brand to the world of Horology.

The challenging part is being brutally honest with yourself, when you have to admit that a seiko Turtle feels a hell of a lot like an Omega Seamaster on the wrist...

I respect Seiko more than any other brand for the pride they take, even in making the entry level brands... it lets me know that the Pride I felt in wearing it, and the Pride my Grandfather felt in receiving a Seiko for his 25 yr Return of Service watch, was well intended.

Although now that I can indulge in almost any brand, I still find myself drawn to their watchmaking philosophy... and with the Grand Seiko, I can honestly say that the details and finishing, and "wrist feel" is on par, or surpasses the "Trilogy"..

How can you not love a brand that is obsessively passionate about being the best in the business, and offering the best quality of product at the most fair price possible to the end-user??

If you love watches, it shouldn't be a mystery... if you love "flexing" then it becomes the worlds greatest enigma as to Why anyone who could flex a PP would choose to wear a $500 Seiko...

That is without doubt a fabulous post.

[Pongster]

Just realized. My PP, AP and VC sit in same box as my GS.


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[Fat_ninja]

Its a watch for a true WIS.

[Jostack]

And if if you think it is strange, you know Seiko admirers admiring Seiko’s, stop in the Rolex general forum. It is far more of a circle jerk, with an occasional interesting post.


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[jcarm981]

Same My box doesn’t discriminate. Not pictured is the SBGN005

[jcarm981]

Originally Posted by Jostack

And if if you think it is strange, you know Seiko admirers admiring Seiko’s, stop in the Rolex general forum. It is far more of a circle jerk, with an occasional interesting post.


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^This