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Old 25 March 2020, 03:46 AM   #3691
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Seriously, I have a morbid curiosity how this is gonna play out.

S.Korea is like a wheel oiled machine. India on the other hand has much more contrasting way of doing things.
My guess is the majority will ignore the order. India does not have the manpower or structure to enforce country-wide (a vast country, I might add) mandate.
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Old 25 March 2020, 03:59 AM   #3692
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Know what would be a good idea? For someone (the US government, or the Gates Foundation) to hold a contest to see who can design the best ventilator constructed entirely from commonly available (hardware store, Grainger catalog) items. I’m talking about something extremely simple, maybe three speeds, no feedback logic, no records keeping. Just something that is better than nothing, that could keep somebody alive. Something they would like to have in a hospital hallway in Italy for a 70 years old man.

Contest parameters would be efficacy, ease of assembly, reliability, maintainability.

Because we might need them. And if we don’t, some other community (distant rural community in underdeveloped nation with a local outbreak) will.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:05 AM   #3693
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Thinking of Switzerland too: 9117 cases and 122 deaths so far. Sad.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:07 AM   #3694
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Know what would be a good idea? For someone (the US government, or the Gates Foundation) to hold a contest to see who can design the best ventilator constructed entirely from commonly available (hardware store, Grainger catalog) items. Iím talking about something extremely simple, maybe three speeds, no feedback logic, no records keeping. Just something that is better than nothing, that could keep somebody alive.
A doc at the University of Minnesota has invented a super simple ventilator made of an ambu bag and simple parts.

Simple ventilator
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:08 AM   #3695
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:10 AM   #3696
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A doc at the University of Minnesota has invented a super simple ventilator made of an ambu bag and simple parts.



Simple ventilator


Reminds me of the CO2 scrubber they crafted on Apollo13.


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Old 25 March 2020, 04:16 AM   #3697
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A doc at the University of Minnesota has invented a super simple ventilator made of an ambu bag and simple parts.

Simple ventilator
That is awesome. I know such a ventilator is not the answer for every critical patient, but if we are overcome like in Italy, This could mean life for a lot of people.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:20 AM   #3698
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Reminds me of the CO2 scrubber they crafted on Apollo13.


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Hahah thatís exactly the first thing I thought of

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Old 25 March 2020, 04:21 AM   #3699
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A colleague of mine at Wayne State University sent this email to me this morning. A BVM is the common ambu bag rescue breathing device.

So we've gotten official word NOT to use BVMs with a face mask for any patient, known COVID or not, and ONLY to use them with ET tubes if we have a viral filter in place. The bagging is too high risk for providers. EMS here established a new protocol for hands only CPR. We even have word today in our ED NOT to do CPR on patients who are high risk as this also increase viral transmissions. The phrase I go back to “there is no emergency in a pandemic.” Providers need to be kept safe.

Never in my career have I seen these kinds of mass casualty, wartime protocols set in place in community and university hospitals.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:23 AM   #3700
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Originally Posted by gh0stleader View Post
Seriously, I have a morbid curiosity how this is gonna play out.

S.Korea is like a wheel oiled machine. India on the other hand has much more contrasting way of doing things.
Plus a vast number of the population doesn't believe in using indoor plumbing.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:25 AM   #3701
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

Well I just got back home from Walmart.
They were sanitizing each cart for every customer.

Yes, I sanitized the outer packaging upon returning home - mostly metal, plastic containers.

Used the Clorox wipes.

As I left the store, used hand sanitizer before getting in the car.

The nicest trip ever at Walmart. Plenty of meats, veges and most everything.

I didnít check TP or other paper goods.

If I was ordering delivery, the shipping box doesnít need cleaning really. Just leave it outside while you unpack it. Then do the sanitizing wipe on the products and wash your hands.


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Old 25 March 2020, 04:31 AM   #3702
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I see people posting this kind of information every day. What is your point? That this pandemic ISN'T really a problem? That we are over-reacting? Should we all be feeling better? Since 1918, when has the flu completely overwhelmed the healthcare systems of entire countries? Killed so many doctors and nurses?
Exactly my point.

My wife is in healthcare and it is SCARY right now. I have never seen anything like this. No FLU has ever done anything like this.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:33 AM   #3703
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But, under current guidelines, they need to be clear for an additional 14 days. Potential of five weeks.
I get it. My point is from onset to recovery is about 22 days unable to work PLUS any additional quarantine.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:33 AM   #3704
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My Mum died of Flu on Boxing day Ė although technically it was pneumonia brought on by it - so I donít know if it will be recorded as Flu or pneumonia.
I don't know anybody yet that has died of Corona - though I know of one tested positive that is now well.

Statistics do not always give a true reflection. The Corona death rate to infected % is way lower than those headlined but that does not alter the fact that many people are going to die from it.

Am I correct in saying similarly to Flu, Corona attacks the elderly more?
Are there any statistics available for Corona (and Flu) that show a curve of:
death rate compared to age?
death rate compared to age Ė with an underlying health issue?
So very sorry for your loss.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:45 AM   #3705
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PPE supplies and hospital protocols in this country have been a complete and utter EMBARRASSMENT.
Why stop there....hoarding......ignoring the health directives....spring break party’ers.... etc.etc......how do you fix STUPID

Quote:
Originally Posted by statsman View Post
Know what would be a good idea? For someone (the US government, or the Gates Foundation) to hold a contest to see who can design the best ventilator constructed entirely from commonly available (hardware store, Grainger catalog) items. I’m talking about something extremely simple, maybe three speeds, no feedback logic, no records keeping. Just something that is better than nothing, that could keep somebody alive. Something they would like to have in a hospital hallway in Italy for a 70 years old man.

Contest parameters would be efficacy, ease of assembly, reliability, maintainability.

Because we might need them. And if we don’t, some other community (distant rural community in underdeveloped nation with a local outbreak) will.
Makes sense .....but good luck getting past the FDA regs.....we’ve learned more ways to tie our own hands ....maybe this kind of situation will open some eyes...I sure hope so...
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:48 AM   #3706
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I think we really need to stop analyzing numbers between the flu and covid19. It's not an apples to apples comparison and it is really obvious this is a much worse situation. Right now the mortality rate really depends on preparedness and the quality of the healthcare systems. If we don't prepare properly and help slow the spread the mortality rate will definitely go up. Just because we can sustain a lower mortality rate compared to some other countries doesn't make this any less of a problem. Sure there are lots of untested people that recover but there are lots of people who have died and never got tested as well
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:55 AM   #3707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeychitwood View Post
A colleague of mine at Wayne State University sent this email to me this morning. A BVM is the common ambu bag rescue breathing device.

So we've gotten official word NOT to use BVMs with a face mask for any patient, known COVID or not, and ONLY to use them with ET tubes if we have a viral filter in place. The bagging is too high risk for providers. EMS here established a new protocol for hands only CPR. We even have word today in our ED NOT to do CPR on patients who are high risk as this also increase viral transmissions. The phrase I go back to ďthere is no emergency in a pandemic.Ē Providers need to be kept safe.

Never in my career have I seen these kinds of mass casualty, wartime protocols set in place in community and university hospitals.
Compresssion only cpr and no mask bagging .Good info !

Going to have a few hypoxic intubations then by the time the induction agent and muscle relaxant are drawn up and the nurse found the tube ...

Zap a HIGH dose rocuronium before induction agent ,to make sure the patient doesnt cough in your face with intubation !
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:56 AM   #3708
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I think we really need to stop analyzing numbers between the flu and covid19. It's not an apples to apples comparison and it is really obvious this is a much worse situation. Right now the mortality rate really depends on preparedness and the quality of the healthcare systems. If we don't prepare properly and help slow the spread the mortality rate will definitely go up. Just because we can sustain a lower mortality rate compared to some other countries doesn't make this any less of a problem. Sure there are lots of untested people that recover but there are lots of people who have died and never got tested as well
Yes there is a case (last week?) of a woman in Georgia who died in her kitchen from infection. She was 42 with no underlying health issues according to the report.

It's unclear if she was tested and waiting results, not tested? I'm not sure, but it's crazy to think she didn't get to a hospital and instead died in her kitchen.
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Old 25 March 2020, 04:56 AM   #3709
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I get it. My point is from onset to recovery is about 22 days unable to work PLUS any additional quarantine.
Gotcha.
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Old 25 March 2020, 05:03 AM   #3710
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Yes there is a case (last week?) of a woman in Georgia who died in her kitchen from infection. She was 42 with no underlying health issues according to the report.

It's unclear if she was tested and waiting results, not tested? I'm not sure, but it's crazy to think she didn't get to a hospital and instead died in her kitchen.
I also read that article outside of this forum, itís unclear what she died from, unfortunately if we keep scapegoating deaths in the media immediately to covid-19 we could be missing a potentially bigger or different health issue

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Old 25 March 2020, 05:06 AM   #3711
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by statsman View Post
Know what would be a good idea? For someone (the US government, or the Gates Foundation) to hold a contest to see who can design the best ventilator constructed entirely from commonly available (hardware store, Grainger catalog) items. Iím talking about something extremely simple, maybe three speeds, no feedback logic, no records keeping. Just something that is better than nothing, that could keep somebody alive. Something they would like to have in a hospital hallway in Italy for a 70 years old man.

Contest parameters would be efficacy, ease of assembly, reliability, maintainability.

Because we might need them. And if we donít, some other community (distant rural community in underdeveloped nation with a local outbreak) will.

Thereís already transport ventilators made out plastic that rely on oxygen tank pressures. No ventilation machine required.
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Old 25 March 2020, 05:07 AM   #3712
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I also read that article outside of this forum, itís unclear what she died from, unfortunately if we keep scapegoating deaths in the media immediately to covid-19 we could be missing a potentially bigger or different health issue

steve
The article states Covid-19 related death, but I admit, there's not a lot of explanation.
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Old 25 March 2020, 05:10 AM   #3713
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The article states Covid-19 related death, but I admit, there's not a lot of explanation.
Yeah the one I read said it was covid related in title but then after actually reading the entire thing, it said she never got her test back, but that was yesterday, I think I had it sent to me via Apple news app

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Old 25 March 2020, 05:14 AM   #3714
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India just locked down entire country for 21 days with ďonlyĒ around 500 cases total.

Plus they have heat and humidity on their side to stem the spread.

I wonder how that will affect their economy?

Would more Indians die from the lockdown itself than the virus?
What data is there that says heat and humidity will be helpful in this specific strain of virus?

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Old 25 March 2020, 05:42 AM   #3715
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What data is there that says heat and humidity will be helpful in this specific strain of virus?
Well, here is a paper on the effects of heat and humidity on SARS virus, which is Covid-19's closest "relative."

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2011/734690/

"...high temperature at high relative humidity has a synergistic effect on inactivation of SARS CoV viability..."

"The environmental conditions of countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thailand are thus not conducive to the prolonged survival of the virus."
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Old 25 March 2020, 05:50 AM   #3716
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuyork View Post
Yes there is a case (last week?) of a woman in Georgia who died in her kitchen from infection. She was 42 with no underlying health issues according to the report.

It's unclear if she was tested and waiting results, not tested? I'm not sure, but it's crazy to think she didn't get to a hospital and instead died in her kitchen.


I couldnít find a case in my home state that fit those details. Can you track down where you read this?

But a 39 y.o. Woman in New Orleans might be the source of this case?

https://www.businessinsider.com/39-y...19-test-2020-3

And BTW - that story starts from a FB post by her boyfriend. So I donít vouch for the accuracy.


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Old 25 March 2020, 05:51 AM   #3717
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Never in my career have I seen these kinds of mass casualty, wartime protocols set in place in community and university hospitals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg2 View Post
I have never seen anything like this. No FLU has ever done anything like this.
Where are you guys? How bad is it in your areas? Is it patients lying in the hallway bad? As far as I know, there is no report of medical care issues in Philly area.
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Old 25 March 2020, 05:54 AM   #3718
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I couldnít find a case in my home state that fit those details. Can you track down where you read this?

But a 39 y.o. Woman in New Orleans might be the source of this case?

https://www.businessinsider.com/39-y...19-test-2020-3

And BTW - that story starts from a FB post by her boyfriend. So I donít vouch for the accuracy.


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Yes thatís the one I read

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Old 25 March 2020, 05:58 AM   #3719
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Unless its frozen or fridge stuff i just let it set 48 hours just inside my front door ...i dont think the virus can survive over 48 hours on cardboard stuff .....and wash hands good after getting bags inside.


Reports seem to agree; they have tested many different surfaces - but the amount of virus deposited on a surface + the temperature and humidity can determine how long any virus survives.

I just donít know how many different handlers have handled a box during its shipping interval.

Iíd guess the destination city distribution center and the final delivery person are closest potential source of any virion.


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Old 25 March 2020, 06:01 AM   #3720
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I think we really need to stop analyzing numbers between the flu and covid19. It's not an apples to apples comparison and it is really obvious this is a much worse situation.
Yes, it is apples to apples. Both are airborne viral diseases. And, sorry, it is not obvious that Covid-19's much worse. Slightly or even somewhat worse, yes, but I cannot agree to "much worse" phrasing.
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