How to manage a Private to Private £££sale

[RolexADreal]

To break the ice and slightly change the forum posts pattern i have a question for the broader audience, let's see if someone can en-light me.

I do own a relatively big watch collection, started collecting in 1994 and i now own several dozens of timepieces which are all amazing to my eyes.

I decided it's about time start consolidating my collection, unfortunately i own too many pieces which gain little to 0 wrist time, often the same model in different PMs.

To cut the story short i tried a shy attempt of advertising 1 of my watches for sale, current mkt value is around 100k$ average.

Now: i have been approached from a gentleman who lives in the same city i do, seems like he is willing to pay my asking price, we met for a coffee and discussed a bit, i was very cautious and didn't bring ANY watch with me.

He was kind of fine seeing detailed pictures showing every evidences of some fine line on the case.

Now i am tempted to sell him my watch, but i can't have enough reassurance that this gentleman is not there to scam me or hurt me. He didn't open up much on what he does for living, and i couldn't really get a feeling of his genuinity.

If you were in me what would you do? i am happy to sell the watch but very cautious on selecting who i am dealing with

Have you done any transaction with strangers? how did you get paid? how did you make sure he doesn't show up with some bad guy and beat you up? How to make sure he won't run away...

Even meeting in a bank doesn't sound safe to me, the moment he has his hands on the watch he can run away and bye bye...

Food for thoughts... meanwhile i will keep cheering and enjoying my amazing watch :P

[paxjedi]

He is probably more wary of you than you of him. At the end of the day, you would have cash and he can potentially (in his mind) wonder if the watch is real or not. At that amount ($100K), if I were to do this, I would make a contract of sale and do the exchange in my lawyer's office where he could witness the sale and even notarize the contract. That way, I would be protected and so will my buyer. Aside from your buyer literally running away with your watch, he could potentially come back later and claim it is a fake. So doing it in a lawyer's office under contract would legitimize that he received an authentic watch. Now, if it were a $10K watch only then you could probably do it in some cafe, but $100K is a whole lot of money to do the sale in a street curb. I bought a Rolex once, about 25 years ago, from a stranger and we did the sale inside a bank, after I withdrew the cash for the sale.

But my suggestion is mine alone. Many here would chime in if they have more experience.
Good luck and hopefully you can get a good price

.

[PhilippeD]

Originally Posted by paxjedi

At that amount ($100K), if I were to do this, I would make a contract of sale and do the exchange in my lawyer's office where he could witness the sale and even notarize the contract.

.

This, 100%! Have your lawyer draw up a contract and notarize it.

[samson66]

50% up front by wire. Meet at your bank to do the exchange and collect the other 50%

[brandrea]

You’re the seller and hold all the cards so to speak.

He wires you 100% payment … you ship him the watch. Simple

[dpt.calvin]

Do you work at a real Rolex AD? (based on your user name)

[Panader]

If the guy is buying a 100k watch and does not have linkedin or a business website or articles about him then that is a red flag.

The only guys I know with 100k watches own businesses and have emails from those businesses.

Also consider your tax obligations, I would speak to your accountant if you are making a profit on the watch.

[GB-man]

As Brian noted this just isn’t a good idea. Unless you’re an off duty cop or some kind of bad a** sell them via a professional on consignment.

That person has the reputation to sell them by wire remotely. If you were in the US I’d be happy to help but I’m sure there are plenty of people over there who can assist for a fair percentage.

[karleone]

So easy to get scam. At this price point I would either sell to a reputable and well known dealer (at a lower price but much safer) or to a collector I know personally.

[travisb]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You’re the seller and hold all the cards so to speak.

He wires you 100% payment … you ship him the watch. Simple

This. Don’t turn over the watch until funds have 100% cleared your account.

[RolexADreal]

totally fair, i was thinking of finalising the transaction at my lawyers in any case.... so i agree with you

Originally Posted by paxjedi

He is probably more wary of you than you of him. At the end of the day, you would have cash and he can potentially (in his mind) wonder if the watch is real or not. At that amount ($100K), if I were to do this, I would make a contract of sale and do the exchange in my lawyer's office where he could witness the sale and even notarize the contract. That way, I would be protected and so will my buyer. Aside from your buyer literally running away with your watch, he could potentially come back later and claim it is a fake. So doing it in a lawyer's office under contract would legitimize that he received an authentic watch. Now, if it were a $10K watch only then you could probably do it in some cafe, but $100K is a whole lot of money to do the sale in a street curb. I bought a Rolex once, about 25 years ago, from a stranger and we did the sale inside a bank, after I withdrew the cash for the sale.

But my suggestion is mine alone. Many here would chime in if they have more experience.
Good luck and hopefully you can get a good price

.

[RolexADreal]

banks not safe, the doors are open, he can run away and good luck to me!

Originally Posted by samson66

50% up front by wire. Meet at your bank to do the exchange and collect the other 50%

[RolexADreal]

that's exactly my point... i don't know what he does for living, and he didn't open up, hence reg flag for me.... maybe i'm too suspicious...

Originally Posted by Panader

If the guy is buying a 100k watch and does not have linkedin or a business website or articles about him then that is a red flag.

The only guys I know with 100k watches own businesses and have emails from those businesses.

Also consider your tax obligations, I would speak to your accountant if you are making a profit on the watch.

[1665fan]

Get prepaid wire then meet in a public place…..easy…..if he’s got that much he’s a millionaire and understands how business is done and will prepay for the timepieces if he is legit…..if he says no consider it a blessing and move along…

[RolexADreal]

kind of :P

Originally Posted by dpt.calvin

Do you work at a real Rolex AD? (based on your user name)

[Cigars&Watches]

At the end of the day you simply don't know... always trust your instincts and gut feelings. Sounds like something is off with this guy. I would not do the deal with him if you can't confirm his identity at the very least...

I would only sell a watch of that value to a trusted friend or grey..

Have you looked to see what a grey would pay you for your watch.. Surely this buyer is expecting to pay you less than he would have to in order to buy from a shop.. perhaps a grey price is not that bad considering the security of it..

At least have your insurance up to date in order to cover you against theft..

Good luck and Keep us posted

[RolexADreal]

Absolutely! or not sell it at all!

Originally Posted by karleone

So easy to get scam. At this price point I would either sell to a reputable and well known dealer (at a lower price but much safer) or to a collector I know personally.

[RolexADreal]

fair point, fact is that i have no relationship with grey dealers as i buy only from ADs...


Grey dealers would charge me 20% of the transaction and myself i bring in the watch and the buyer? doesn't sound right to me!! Matter of principle

Originally Posted by GB-man

As Brian noted this just isn’t a good idea. Unless you’re an off duty cop or some kind of bad a** sell them via a professional on consignment.

That person has the reputation to sell them by wire remotely. If you were in the US I’d be happy to help but I’m sure there are plenty of people over there who can assist for a fair percentage.

[RolexADreal]

it's a Niche piece, if you want to sell it dealers will tell you there is no demand... if you want to buy it, as there are literally 4 pieces on Chrono at the moment, dealers will tell you it's rare and valuable...

Grey wouldn't bid on it... or would low bid it!

Originally Posted by Cigars&Watches

At the end of the day you simply don't know... always trust your instincts and gut feelings. Sounds like something is off with this guy. I would not do the deal with him if you can't confirm his identity at the very least...

I would only sell a watch of that value to a trusted friend or grey..

Have you looked to see what a grey would pay you for your watch.. Surely this buyer is expecting to pay you less than he would have to in order to buy from a shop.. perhaps a grey price is not that bad considering the security of it..

At least have your insurance up to date in order to cover you against theft..

Good luck and Keep us posted

[Henrimontgomery]

Draft a contract and have both of you approve it before hand. Perhaps involve a lawyer friend of yours. I’ve sold plenty of things and only once had somebody bring me a contract.

I don’t really care who the bloke I am selling is, as long as he has the legit money and won’t bother me after the sale.

[Shadow Play]

Originally Posted by RolexADreal

fair point, fact is that i have no relationship with grey dealers as i buy only from ADs...


Grey dealers would charge me 20% of the transaction and myself i bring in the watch and the buyer? doesn't sound right to me!! Matter of principle

I’m not entirely sure what principles you are talking about here.

You are scared / worried of dealing with this man. The grey will take all those worries and fears away from you. For a fee of course. It’s only money at the end of the day. Why put yourself through the apparent anxiety and stress you are having over this?

[beshannon]

I love these threads.

Everytime a person says how easy it is to buy/sell/flip watches for profits quickly and easily, they should read all these threads.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by RolexADreal

If you were in me what would you do?

I would sell it to a reputable second hand dealer.

Realistically, I'm not going to get close to what a trader will sell it for. Buyers expect less from private sellers because of the risks associated. I can be 100% genuine, but there are 10 more cowboys out there claiming to have my watch and some of them might even be claiming to be me. How would a stranger know with certainty that I am the genuine article?

If a buyer agrees in principle to buy it at a price favourable to me, they can back out at any time , start hedging or take it right up to the point of sale, then refuse to proceed without a discount. A reputable grey dealer will make me a good faith offer if my watch is presented to them in good faith. And the price agreed will usually be the one that I get. I can't offer the sort of aftersales service that a dealer can, and I don't have experience dealing with scammers or insurance against it, like a dealer has.

I can't have it both ways. I either take the risk of being scammed at or after the sale or I hand it to a reputable company who will give me a good offer with no risk attached.

It doesn't matter what I think, what vibe I get, how convinced I am that a stranger is a genuine buyer. People are not conned, right up to the point at which they are conned. Nor robbed, right up until the point they are robbed, or worse, or much worse...

If I was a seasoned and experienced watch collector/trader and I was philosophical about taking the odd knock and maybe scoring the odd unexpected win, I would appear less cautious (the operative word being "appear). But I'm not. With respect, it sounds like you are not either.

[jets]

Originally Posted by RolexADreal

To break the ice and slightly change the forum posts pattern i have a question for the broader audience, let's see if someone can en-light me.

I do own a relatively big watch collection, started collecting in 1994 and i now own several dozens of timepieces which are all amazing to my eyes.

I decided it's about time start consolidating my collection, unfortunately i own too many pieces which gain little to 0 wrist time, often the same model in different PMs.

To cut the story short i tried a shy attempt of advertising 1 of my watches for sale, current mkt value is around 100k$ average.

Now: i have been approached from a gentleman who lives in the same city i do, seems like he is willing to pay my asking price, we met for a coffee and discussed a bit, i was very cautious and didn't bring ANY watch with me.

He was kind of fine seeing detailed pictures showing every evidences of some fine line on the case.

Now i am tempted to sell him my watch, but i can't have enough reassurance that this gentleman is not there to scam me or hurt me. He didn't open up much on what he does for living, and i couldn't really get a feeling of his genuinity.

If you were in me what would you do? i am happy to sell the watch but very cautious on selecting who i am dealing with

Have you done any transaction with strangers? how did you get paid? how did you make sure he doesn't show up with some bad guy and beat you up? How to make sure he won't run away...

Even meeting in a bank doesn't sound safe to me, the moment he has his hands on the watch he can run away and bye bye...

Food for thoughts... meanwhile i will keep cheering and enjoying my amazing watch :P

I'd go to my preferred AD and ask if they could broker a deal with some of their clients and offer say 3% of the sale. It's not as if moving these pieces are going to be hard in this market. If not a reputable grey could offer you good money for a handful of your less preferred pieces. It sounds as if you have no money problems so take a little less than market price and wash your hands of the risks.

[swaini3]

If he agrees to the lawyer option then thats the best one. I'd ask to bring a manager's cheque too. You never know if the cash is real or not. Yes, extreme but still possible, especially if you dont know the buyer. Not sure how it works in France, but I asked a police officer once about these scams and he suggested to ask the seller to deposit the cash at a teller in your bank and then hand the watch to him. This way, cash can be checked to be good and your both ok. Also, bring a friend or 2.

[swaini3]

I would also use the consignment option if you're not in a rush but I doubt 20% is what grey dealers charge.

[RolexADreal]

Definitely i am not a trader, the few pieces i have ever sold in my life were all sold at a loss, just watches i didn't like anymore...

In terms of experienced collector... there is always someone who has it bigger than ours...

But i am very relaxed, i won't take unnecessary risks!

Originally Posted by Harry-57

I would sell it to a reputable second hand dealer.

Realistically, I'm not going to get close to what a trader will sell it for. Buyers expect less from private sellers because of the risks associated. I can be 100% genuine, but there are 10 more cowboys out there claiming to have my watch and some of them might even be claiming to be me. How would a stranger know with certainty that I am the genuine article?

If a buyer agrees in principle to buy it at a price favourable to me, they can back out at any time , start hedging or take it right up to the point of sale, then refuse to proceed without a discount. A reputable grey dealer will make me a good faith offer if my watch is presented to them in good faith. And the price agreed will usually be the one that I get. I can't offer the sort of aftersales service that a dealer can, and I don't have experience dealing with scammers or insurance against it, like a dealer has.

I can't have it both ways. I either take the risk of being scammed at or after the sale or I hand it to a reputable company who will give me a good offer with no risk attached.

It doesn't matter what I think, what vibe I get, how convinced I am that a stranger is a genuine buyer. People are not conned, right up to the point at which they are conned. Nor robbed, right up until the point they are robbed, or worse, or much worse...

If I was a seasoned and experienced watch collector/trader and I was philosophical about taking the odd knock and maybe scoring the odd unexpected win, I would appear less cautious (the operative word being "appear). But I'm not. With respect, it sounds like you are not either.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by RolexADreal

fair point, fact is that i have no relationship with grey dealers as i buy only from ADs...


Grey dealers would charge me 20% of the transaction and myself i bring in the watch and the buyer? doesn't sound right to me!! Matter of principle

You wouldn’t be bringing the buyer. You would be consigning pieces preferably one at a time with a dealer to sell on your behalf for a percentage. I’ve done this for people here with a consignment agreement for as little as 3% of net with a $500 minimum.

Expect to pay closer to 10% with a dealer but you get the security of a brick and mortar etc.

[rootbeer7]

I’ve sold a couple of relatively highly priced vintage pieces. I found a friendly jeweller with secure premises. I placed watch in their safe a while before I met with the purchaser. I then ensured we were face on to their security camera during the sale. I discussed the arrangements with purchaser before and he was more than happy to proceed. At the price-point you’re looking at it might even be worth engaging a specialist at a small cost to underwrite sale.

[Token74]

I would go to s watch dealer (AD or grey) and ask them to transact the deal for me. If you have a buyer lined up already then relative to the 100k you really won’t have to pay them much, and it removes all stress.


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