How will SubC be remembered...

[Tony8959]

All this talk lately of watches getting redesigned cases and new movements has me wondering how the current versions (114060 & 116610) of the Sub will be viewed once the redesign takes place. Most of us can agree it’s a modern classic and being the first iteration with a ceramic bezel it will have a firm place in history. But, to me a redesigned case (thinner lugs), red submariner text, and better movement would improve on this versions few shortcomings (if you can call them that). In my eyes making it perfect and possibly making some forget about these current references. What do you think?


*disclaimer: I am an owner of the 116610

[Shay-J]

I think it will be remembered for what it is, a good watch, can’t really say anymore than that.
We need to stop over analysing these things, if we like it then get it, if not than don’t.
The design is the design, the movement is the movement, its all part of design development evolution.
Live life today and enjoy your Rolex.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Tony8959

All this talk lately of watches getting redesigned cases and new movements has me wondering how the current versions (114060 & 116610) of the Sub will be viewed once the redesign takes place. Most of us can agree it’s a modern classic and being the first iteration with a ceramic bezel it will have a firm place in history. But, to me a redesigned case (thinner lugs), red submariner text, and better movement would improve on this versions few shortcomings (if you can call them that). In my eyes making it perfect and possibly making some forget about these current references. What do you think?


*disclaimer: I am an owner of the 116610

There are no "shortcomings" with the modern day Sub. Rolex sells every one they make and there are buyers all over the world that want to own one, and there are not enough supply to go around.
I got mine and it happens to be my grail for life.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Tony8959

All this talk lately of watches getting redesigned cases and new movements has me wondering how the current versions (114060 & 116610) of the Sub will be viewed once the redesign takes place. Most of us can agree it’s a modern classic and being the first iteration with a ceramic bezel it will have a firm place in history. But, to me a redesigned case (thinner lugs), red submariner text, and better movement would improve on this versions few shortcomings (if you can call them that). In my eyes making it perfect and possibly making some forget about these current references. What do you think?


*disclaimer: I am an owner of the 116610

And what would be a better movement, is not the cal 3135 one of the greatest most accurate and long lasting movements on this planet.Its changed very little since introduction in 1988 and powered countless millions of Rolex watches how can any movement be better.

[Krash]

I think slimmer lugs and red text would be a step backwards. Hopefully they maintain current case.

I suppose a new movement would be fine, but I’m impressed with the accuracy as is and don’t need more power reserve. I’d also be cautious about the new movement. I’d wait a few years first to make certain it’s just as good or better.

I’d definitely like to see new color options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tony8959]

Originally Posted by padi56

And what would be a better movement, is not the cal 3135 one of the greatest most accurate and long lasting movements on this planet.Its changed very little since introduction in 1988 and powered countless millions of Rolex watches how can any movement be better.

Very well said.. there’s not much to improve on this current movement. It probably would just improve power reserve.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Tony8959

How will SubC be remembered...

Probably as a watch

[Tony8959]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

There are no "shortcomings" with the modern day Sub. Rolex sells every one they make and there are buyers all over the world that want to own one, and there are not enough supply to go around.
I got mine and it happens to be my grail for life.

I doubt I’d ever sell mine either. Just was curious how some changes would effect perception or value of this generation.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by Tony8959

I doubt I’d ever sell mine either. Just was curious how some changes would effect perception or value of this generation.

I think it depends what the new version is like. Undoubtedly, if the changes are significant, there will be both advocates and opponents. It could be a decade or so before we really know.

However, glidelock bracelet and ceramic bezel are pretty significant advancements.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jsausley]

What are you worried about? That your watch will become the black sheep and no one will want it, and it'll be worth nothing?

I can guarantee that won't happen. And if it does, then I'll be super excited, because I'll be able to buy a really nice, ceramic bezel Submariner for half of retail price.

[JacksonStone]

I think a red line on an upcoming Sub is a pipe dream. Red lines on black divers are rare in the Rolex world, and seeing as how we just saw one on the SD43 (in tribute to its 50th anniversary, no less), I don't anticipate we'll see one on a Sub any time soon. That would render the red line a predictable cliche, and would diminish its impact. That's an Omega move, not Rolex.

I also think the odds are against slimmer lugs. Prior to the new-gen GMTs this year, I thought the odds were better, but Rolex has doubled down on the Supercase with the GMT; that case design is virtually unchanged in the newest iteration. Since their introductions, the Sub and GMT have been fraternal twins of each other. It would be a substantial break with tradition if Rolex now has the Sub veer off into different design territory from the GMT. Anything can happen, of course, but from the standpoint of predicting, history is our best indicator. The smart money is on the Sub case not changing appreciably when the new movement goes in.

As such, I don't think we'll see a large generational break between the current Sub and the next Sub the way we did between the current Sub and the last five-digit model. I suspect we will see some new bezel/dial/metal combos, but the core models will essentially look the same, only with an upgraded movement (and coronet at 6:00 on the dial). In the short term, that might make the 1166xx gen look slightly antiquated, but in the longer term, it will look like one part of a longer chapter of large-case Subs.

[doramas]

The ugliest Submariner. So I will remember it

[bobabreath]

SubC will always be popular, but can still be improved on with movement, slimmer case, and new colors.

[Tony8959]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I think a red line on an upcoming Sub is a pipe dream. Red lines on black divers are rare in the Rolex world, and seeing as how we just saw one on the SD43 (in tribute to its 50th anniversary, no less), I don't anticipate we'll see one on a Sub any time soon. That would render the red line a predictable cliche, and would diminish its impact. That's an Omega move, not Rolex.

I also think the odds are against slimmer lugs. Prior to the new-gen GMTs this year, I would have thought the odds were better, but Rolex has doubled down on the Supercase with the GMT; that case design is virtually unchanged in the newest iteration. Since their introductions, the Sub and GMT have been fraternal twins of each other. It would be a substantial break with tradition if Rolex now has the Sub veer off into different design territory from the GMT. Anything can happen, of course, but from the standpoint of predicting, history is our best indicator. The smart money is on the Sub case not changing appreciably when the new movement goes in.

As such, I don't think we'll see a large generational break between the current Sub and the next Sub the way we do between the current Sub and the last five-digit model. I suspect we will see some new bezel/dial/metal combos, but the core models will essentially look the same, only with an upgraded movement (and coronet at 6:00 on the dial). In the short term, that might make the 1166xx gen look slightly antiquated, but in the longer term, it will look like one part of a longer chapter of large-case Subs.

I think everything you said makes a lot of sense and will probably be the way Rolex will go.

[Tony-GB]

I think the case will become slimmer at the lugs and the case a bit curvier. PCL's will be added as well as a platinum bezel and insert.

Oh, hang on...!

[JonnyBCisco]

I feel like most of you guys aren't actually reading OPs question. Please give it another look.



This is NOT a post that fits under the category of, "what what should I get?" (he already has it).

OP also isn't "worried" about the value of his watch like others have suggested.


For those of you ready to jump down my throat for not answering OP's question either, rest easy, I'm still working on it.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Tony8959

I think everything you said makes a lot of sense and will probably be the way Rolex will go.

Another point is that the previous Sub - the 16610 - lasted for over 20 years before the SubC replaced it. The current one won't make it that far, since there's no way Rolex will put off the new movement that long. However, by keeping the design of the new one virtually unchanged from the current one, it extends the life of the design in a way that it could end up matching the 16610 in longevity.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I think a red line on an upcoming Sub is a pipe dream. Red lines on black divers are rare in the Rolex world, and seeing as how we just saw one on the SD43 (in tribute to its 50th anniversary, no less), I don't anticipate we'll see one on a Sub any time soon. That would render the red line a predictable cliche, and would diminish its impact. That's an Omega move, not Rolex.

I also think the odds are against slimmer lugs. Prior to the new-gen GMTs this year, I thought the odds were better, but Rolex has doubled down on the Supercase with the GMT; that case design is virtually unchanged in the newest iteration. Since their introductions, the Sub and GMT have been fraternal twins of each other. It would be a substantial break with tradition if Rolex now has the Sub veer off into different design territory from the GMT. Anything can happen, of course, but from the standpoint of predicting, history is our best indicator. The smart money is on the Sub case not changing appreciably when the new movement goes in.

As such, I don't think we'll see a large generational break between the current Sub and the next Sub the way we did between the current Sub and the last five-digit model. I suspect we will see some new bezel/dial/metal combos, but the core models will essentially look the same, only with an upgraded movement (and coronet at 6:00 on the dial). In the short term, that might make the 1166xx gen look slightly antiquated, but in the longer term, it will look like one part of a longer chapter of large-case Subs.

This.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mg Barcelona]

Only time will tell but I think it could be Rolex's Porsche 996. A slimmer lugged 997/991 would put us back on track of the round headlight familiarity. I own one and love it but it is not perfect.

[legedema]

is it even official ?
whats the source that they will make some changes ?

[yessir69]

It will be remembered similar to the 16610 and the 16800 before it and the 1680 before it.

[JonnyBCisco]

OK, this is my prediction:

In 20 years time, the Submariner case will look different than it does today; same goes for the movement. This has nothing to do with the popularity of the current model. Whatever the changes are, the non-WIS won't notice the difference. (Just like aluminum to ceramic/maxi case. Not things that normal people notice.)

In order to predict how the modern Submariner will be remembered we have to make some prediction about what the future Sub will look like. I think Rolex will make the Sub with a slightly larger case (like 41mm) but with slimmer lugs. And although this sounds too much like a 50th Anniversary Sea-dweller, it won't be because this watch will have evolved as well.

Because the overall shape of the Next Gen Sub case will become more circular, the current modern Sub will look square and much chunkier by comparison. It will be as popular as it is now in the mainstream, but it will be a will be a polarizing change fo many WIS's.

Our current Subs (like mine!) will go down in history as being the Square Ceramic Submariners.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by legedema

is it even official ?
whats the source that they will make some changes ?

Not official. However, it's a given that the new movement will make its way into the Sub at some point. It's only a question of when. A lot of people think it will be 2019, but it could be later.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Tony8959

All this talk lately of watches getting redesigned cases and new movements has me wondering how the current versions (114060 & 116610) of the Sub will be viewed once the redesign takes place. Most of us can agree it’s a modern classic and being the first iteration with a ceramic bezel it will have a firm place in history. But, to me a redesigned case (thinner lugs), red submariner text, and better movement would improve on this versions few shortcomings (if you can call them that). In my eyes making it perfect and possibly making some forget about these current references. What do you think?


*disclaimer: I am an owner of the 116610

I agree they do indeed sell, but am if the belief that the current reference sub was a compromise to appease the large watch folks by giving the appearance of a larger case, but not actually changing the case. Rolex is the most copied watch company in existence. I cannot think of a single company that followed them down the wide lug path-just does not look like a classic design and more like a fashion trend. What made Rolex Rolex is that they were tools, function over form. I get it as watches become unnecessary for some, one needs to be guided more by trends and not function, so change likely inevitable. What I can say is that the 4 and 5 digit references will always look good. The new ceramic versions with wide lugs will look dated and people will recall the large watch trend they were associated with.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Chester01

The new ceramic versions with wide lugs will look dated and people will recall the large watch trend they were associated with.

Nothing makes a design look dated more than rapid changes in styling. If Rolex did an about face on the Supercase, and went right back to five-digit proportions, it would make the SubC look like an outlier in need of correction. (That is what we saw with the DJII, which perhaps was a chunky bridge too far.) A way to mitigate against this is to stay the course for a longer period, so eventual changes don't look arbitrary or like corrections of mistakes, but look more evolutionary. The new GMTs this year indicate that is Rolex's plan; the Supercase GMT looks set for another ten years or so. If Rolex was really intent on backing off the larger design, they wouldn't have re-upped.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Nothing makes a design look dated more than rapid changes in styling. If Rolex did an about face on the Supercase, and went right back to five-digit proportions, it would make the SubC look like an outlier. (That is what we saw with the DJII, which perhaps was a chunky bridge too far.) A way to mitigate against this is to stay the course for a longer period, so eventual changes don't look arbitrary, but look more evolutionary. The new GMTs this year indicate that is Rolex's plan; the Supercase GMT looks set for another ten years or so. If Rolex was really intent on backing off the larger design, they wouldn't have re-upped.

Could not agree more. A gradual slimming over a few years would be fantastic. Indeed they already began this with the new gmt and may begin with the sub perhaps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nikrnic]

It will go down as a ground breaking design considering it was the biggest change since it's inception and the last one with the tried and true and most improved workhorse cal.3135 movement.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[antbkny]

Legendary!

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Shay-J

I think it will be remembered for what it is, a good watch, can’t really say anymore than that.
We need to stop over analysing these things, if we like it then get it, if not than don’t.
The design is the design, the movement is the movement, its all part of design development evolution.
Live life today and enjoy your Rolex.

I like how you think.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Indeed they already began this with the new gmt...

No they didn't. Side-by-side comparisons show the "contoured lugs" are Rolex marketing speak.