Rolex GMT 1969

[tyrion1000]

Been looking at this GMT for a couple of days. Seller has no papers.
My knowledge og gmt´s are non existing so some input on this watch would be very much appreciated.

[TimeToGo]

Welcome to the Forum!

Looks like a very fine watch (pictures). Dial Mk-1, would be appropriate for 1969.

Box is fake, of course.

Insert was replaced.

Do you have any other information, pictures, or the link?

[tyrion1000]

No, seller says that watch has been pressure tested at a rolex dealer. Apart from that, this is all I have.

[TimeToGo]

Reputable seller?

[kooltzar]

missing loupe on plexi

[Old Expat Beast]

The cosc tag is new, too. Not that it really matters.

[tyrion1000]

the missing loupe is really the only thing that differs this gmt from other I have seen, anyone know if this is normal?

[bayerische]

Very uneven polish if you look at the lugs...

[Tim Wells]

The lugs mentioned above show poor workmanship in trying to tidy up the case so much so that it looks like they sanded the case bevels off the left side. Easily remedied though.

The crystal is incorrect as the date magnifier loupe it is supposed to have would be a molded part of the crystal and not bonded on. It's simply the wrong crystal, likely generic.

The bezel insert is likely a service replacement but it looks right, but certainly not the original which would be faded somewhat.

The lume (dots) on the dial have even patina which would be expected given the age but I can't tell for sure if the hands are the same color from the pics but they look like they have been re-lumed, (brighter white). That stuff cracks with time and can fall out so that wouldn't bother me that much but you don't want a re-lumed dial on a GMT. It drastically reduces its value. The bracelet looks fine.

That's all I can tell from just these pics. The case finish would lower the asking price if I were to buy it and that crystal REALLY would, that just bothers me why someone would do that to such an iconic timepiece.

I just traded my 68' last week that had a Pepsi bezel faded to fuchsia, and in preparation to do so I learned what collectors look for in this particular watch. That said; I'd get that at the right price or not at all. Resist the temptation to jump on it just because it's a vintage Rolex GMT. It won't be the last. The closer to original the better.

I did comparisons on mine from completed ebay auctions with lots of bids so I could see what they are going for; a good litmus test. They were averaging $4900 over 13 sales if I remember right but only one was like mine as far as the bezel being fuchsia which drove the price through the roof, but it was perfect. Getting the issues fixed on yours will cost you but it shouldn't be too bad. If the asking price is around the usual $4500, I'd knock off a thousand just to make up for what it can cost to get it back to correct configuration.

What is the seller asking for it if you don't mind so someone may advise you a little? Don't want you getting rooked.

[tyrion1000]

The seller is asking 6.700 $........

[Tim Wells]

That's too high for that watch in its current condition. IF he's that unrealistic in price he probably isn't worth the time to negotiate with. I'd offer 3500 and walk away if he didn't accept.

I know you're in Norway but here is a link to my old watch that I traded last week. It could be had for 5500 or less I bet. He put it up here the day we traded. I bet it'll end up on ebay soon if it's not already.

Here's the link. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/jwd/5218512556.html

EDIT: Sure enough, it is on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Role...item2ee5f520f2

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by tyrion1000

The seller is asking 6.700 $........

That is a fair price. Do your homework, I am sure you will see them posted at this and much higher prices, specially on your side of the pond. Find out the service history. The pictures you posted are not the greatest so I can't comment on the case or plots. But it looks like a very nice watch.

With the price negotiable, maybe you can get it serviced and room to get a nice fat font insert.

Good luck!

[Tim Wells]

Not to be argumentative, but I can't see how you would consider that a fair price with the wrong crystal, wrong bezel insert (should be fat font), and the case refinish work the way it is. What he is asking is top dollar. The only way it would be higher is if it had a fuchsia insert which are going crazy right now.

Granted, the market is as much as 20% higher in Europe but I just can't see that price. The comparisons I did as stated above were not asking prices, they were actual selling prices. Most I saw were $4700.

A few were a lot less but had goofy fabric bands or were beat up badly. The only one that was high went for 10,000 and it had a fuchsia insert with no scratches with even fading and the rest was in near mint condition. That is the exception, not the rule. Either way, I wish you luck and hope you get the one you want for the price you like.

[Charlie_pace]

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Tim Wells

Not to be argumentative, but I can't see how you would consider that a fair price with the wrong crystal, wrong bezel insert (should be fat font), and the case refinish work the way it is. What he is asking is top dollar. The only way it would be higher is if it had a fuchsia insert which are going crazy right now.

Granted, the market is as much as 20% higher in Europe but I just can't see that price. The comparisons I did as stated above were not asking prices, they were actual selling prices. Most I saw were $4700.

A few were a lot less but had goofy fabric bands or were beat up badly. The only one that was high went for 10,000 and it had a fuchsia insert with no scratches with even fading and the rest was in near mint condition. That is the exception, not the rule. Either way, I wish you luck and hope you get the one you want for the price you like.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by Tim Wells

Not to be argumentative, but I can't see how you would consider that a fair price with the wrong crystal, wrong bezel insert (should be fat font), and the case refinish work the way it is. What he is asking is top dollar. The only way it would be higher is if it had a fuchsia insert which are going crazy right now.

Granted, the market is as much as 20% higher in Europe but I just can't see that price. The comparisons I did as stated above were not asking prices, they were actual selling prices. Most I saw were $4700.

A few were a lot less but had goofy fabric bands or were beat up badly. The only one that was high went for 10,000 and it had a fuchsia insert with no scratches with even fading and the rest was in near mint condition. That is the exception, not the rule. Either way, I wish you luck and hope you get the one you want for the price you like.

You are entitled to your opinion..
You say offer him $3,500 or walk away...Get real!

[springer]

I would not offer more than $2,500 for the watch based on my research. Prices are down and the older stuff is just sitting around waiting to be dumped. Would sure like to know who Tim Wells got this generous offer from in Dallas. Maybe I can unload my stuff there.

Mint GMTs for $4,900, I'd like to see them. Sounds pretty high for me.

[Tim Wells]

I did get real and looked ONLY at realized prices on ebay completed auctions, "not buy it now" transactions but actual auctions with multiple bids, mostly double digits. I took each one, added their realized prices all together then divided by the number of sales I found that were 1675 pepsi bezel GMT's. The numbers don't lie. Ebay is retail, it is actually what they are realistically going for.

As for the number I suggested he offer. I took the average going price, all things considered like condition, box, papers, etc… then deducted what it is likely to cost to get that fake crystal off and, overhaul if needed, and replace the insert with the correct one and refinish the case. I also consulted experts on this subject, some of which are respected members of this forum as well as certified Rolex repairmen.

In addition to that, I consulted with a few folks who buy and sell this brand for a living and know exactly what they are going for in the current market and the differences in value when things like gloss dials, gilt dials, fuchsia bezel, are involved.

If a company has a stellar reputation, they can command the higher range of asking prices because they won't offer one that isn't right to begin with because they have to back it up.

The average Joe selling his watch can't do that and shouldn't expect to. Frankly, this watch isn't right and this is an indication that there may be other things inside the watch that are also incorrect, such as generic parts. I wouldn't even consider it as there are plenty of others that are correct and that are a better investment.

I wish the original poster all the best in his search for what he wants. I'd advise him to do more research and this forum is the place to start. That said, I've nothing more to add to this thread. Cheers.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by Tim Wells

I did get real and looked ONLY at realized prices on ebay completed auctions, "not buy it now" transactions but actual auctions with multiple bids, mostly double digits. I took each one, added their realized prices all together then divided by the number of sales I found that were 1675 pepsi bezel GMT's. The numbers don't lie. Ebay is retail, it is actually what they are realistically going for.

As for the number I suggested he offer. I took the average going price, all things considered like condition, box, papers, etc… then deducted what it is likely to cost to get that fake crystal off and, overhaul if needed, and replace the insert with the correct one and refinish the case. I also consulted experts on this subject, some of which are respected members of this forum as well as certified Rolex repairmen.

In addition to that, I consulted with a few folks who buy and sell this brand for a living and know exactly what they are going for in the current market and the differences in value when things like gloss dials, gilt dials, fuchsia bezel, are involved.

If a company has a stellar reputation, they can command the higher range of asking prices because they won't offer one that isn't right to begin with because they have to back it up.

The average Joe selling his watch can't do that and shouldn't expect to. Frankly, this watch isn't right and this is an indication that there may be other things inside the watch that are also incorrect, such as generic parts. I wouldn't even consider it as there are plenty of others that are correct and that are a better investment.

I wish the original poster all the best in his search for what he wants. I'd advise him to do more research and this forum is the place to start. That said, I've nothing more to add to this thread. Cheers.

That is quite an analysis you have there.. Wow, even generic parts inside.

You are right, something is not right. In fact, Springer even thinks you are correct other than you are off by the assumption that "mint GMTs" are selling for $4,900, which he would not pay over $2,500.

So here is how I see it:

In the last three years, you have contributed 30 posts broken down as follow:
2015 - 8
2014 - 1
2013 - 21

I think your analysis is off by as many years...

[Tim Wells]

If you'll take the time to really read my posts, you will find that I never said anything about "mint" GMT's going for $4900.00 and to relate the validity of my opinion to the number of posts I've made since joining this forum is simply idiotic.

The proof is there so I suggest instead of bashing me for trying to help the guy in an attempt to inform him so he doesn't get ripped off; your time would be better spent doing the same research I did on your own.

Mind you, I was comparing only the GMT's that were close to mine in configuration, condition, etc. In other words, a realistic and fair comparison, not apples and oranges.

If you can get 8 grand for a GMT then more power to you. I just can't see why anyone would pay that for one in average condition when they are all over the marketplace for half that or a little more. When I sold my GMT, I got exactly 10 times what I paid for it plus enough boot money to buy a Datejust the next day so I'm tickled plumb to death with my transaction.

Just like anything else, whatever you're selling is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. If some of you have a reputation, or an audience that'll pay top dollar for a watch, I'm sincerely happy for you. That just wasn't going to happen for me locally.

If you try to sell to a reseller, you're going to take a beating to an extent because he has to make money or why do it. Selling to a collector that just has to have that piece in his collection will bring a better profit to you, especially to the person who buys based on emotion rather than as a business decision.

I'm done here, gotta go build some airplanes.

[tyrion1000]

Thanks a lot for the input Tim. It really helped.
Ended up not buying. The seller refused to go down in price.

At the moment there are way to many mint gmt´s on this side of the pond ,at roughly the same price that this guy is asking for his. So if i´m first going to spend 6.000$ + , it´s going to on a proper one.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by tyrion1000

Thanks a lot for the input Tim. It really helped.
Ended up not buying. The seller refused to go down in price.

At the moment there are way to many mint gmt´s on this side of the pond ,at roughly the same price that this guy is asking for his. So if i´m first going to spend 6.000$ + , it´s going to on a proper one.

Good luck with your search.

The US may be the exception, not many of those so called mint gmt's at roughly that same price...

If you need any other help, make sure you reach out Tim...

[nsumner]

Originally Posted by tyrion1000

the missing loupe is really the only thing that differs this gmt from other I have seen, anyone know if this is normal?

The crystal may well be a correct Rolex T38, offered as an option on both 1675/1655......for an undetermined amount of time. If it indeed is, this would add value to the watch.

PS......looks (from provided pics) to be a very nice gmt, in line with current prices.