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26 September 2020, 07:28 PM | #1 |
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Relumed PCG 1675 dial
What a shame, such a beautiful watch
https://www.instagram.com/p/CFkRyJNn...=11d3q2ylwle4z Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk |
26 September 2020, 07:30 PM | #2 |
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At least it‘s done nicely. But yeah always sad to see.
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26 September 2020, 07:41 PM | #3 |
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Dial was already badly relumed so this looks great. Spectacular work by the relumer. The only issue is that it weren’t disclosed by the seller.
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27 September 2020, 04:03 AM | #4 |
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They'll be a thread on this fraudulent sale soon.
To correct ROH, this was not "spectacular work." What it was is - a fraudulent lume job to fool a potential, unknowing and unsuspecting buyer. Warnings have been placed on this forum and elsewhere for the past few years regarding these "re-manufactured" fraudulent watches being passed off as original. These warnings have fell on many deaf ears. Buying vintage gilts that appear new is ludicrous.
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27 September 2020, 04:07 AM | #5 |
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With respect to these more desirable references, collectors are paying attention to every watch that comes to the market, so sellers should know better than to tamper with pieces that have been around for a while.
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27 September 2020, 04:45 AM | #6 |
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Right now the attention is surprisingly on Michael Morgan who is a member here. I am really very shocked by all of this revolving around worldly watches and MM.. On the flip side, in the past, I have been mislead by a very known dealer and sold something to find out the hands were relumed. It was ultimately taken care of. I think the most important thing here is the buyer of this watch is getting his money back. I think we would all be surprised at what goes on in some circles of “elite collectors and dealers” trust takes years to build and only seconds to break. Such a shame and makes this even more scary for our hobby
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27 September 2020, 04:54 AM | #7 |
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27 September 2020, 04:57 AM | #8 |
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Apparently Michael sold it to him but had previously purchased it from the original collector in the poorly relumed state.
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27 September 2020, 04:57 AM | #9 |
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awful
Thank you for bringing this to light.
Doing things like this devalues our hobby. |
27 September 2020, 04:58 AM | #10 |
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On insta, the new post is being said that Michael received this watch with a relumed dial, then sold it to Stephane with a new relume job. Stephane then sold it to the buyer.. All fishy.
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27 September 2020, 04:58 AM | #11 |
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27 September 2020, 05:01 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
That said it should have been disclosed. That is the issue. No the relume.
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27 September 2020, 05:05 AM | #13 |
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I really only know of one relumer in the world that I have seen do such amazing work. I'm not going to bring his name into this, but I am floored at the work he does and even mimics fast fade lume glow as well.
I need to see the watch in the flesh, however, this level of work in combination with a trusted dealer really wouldn't make me think twice.. |
27 September 2020, 05:10 AM | #14 | |
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If Michael only had the GMT re-lumed, that's fine, especially if the original re-lume job was badly done. The question is whether he tried to sell it to Stephane as an original (untouched) dial, which would surprise me a lot, for two reasons: First, in my own experience, and in countless online comments/reviews, Michael has been above reproach. And secondly, someone as experienced as Stephane presumably would know whether the GMT had been re-lumed, whether he was informed or not. |
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27 September 2020, 05:10 AM | #15 |
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Yes, this was spectacular work to defraud someone. Nice to know where you stand ROH. As usual, I don't agree with you. The relume wasn't disclosed because it was strictly profit driven by someone misrepresenting the watch so it could be sold for thousands more without any regard for the hobby or collectors.
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27 September 2020, 05:14 AM | #16 | |
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Quote:
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27 September 2020, 05:20 AM | #17 | |
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There seems to be a bit of finger pointing going on at the moment. Another source has said that MM tried offering this watch for sale to the Asian market with unsuccessful sale, the watch ended up with Stephane. Whether Stephane was in on it or not, it's all currently coming down to the fact that MM originally had the watch with the bad relume job and it left his possession with the enhanced relume |
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27 September 2020, 05:29 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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27 September 2020, 05:31 AM | #19 | |
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Thanks for the kind comments. Your posts always provide me with a few chuckles for the day.
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27 September 2020, 05:46 AM | #20 |
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You are 100% correct Andy, reluming is not a crime. But the issue was reluming it to sell for a major profit without disclosing it and misrepresenting the lume as original is my point. What does "how nice the lume job looks" have to do with a relume to fraudulently increase the value of a watch for resale while misrepresenting the dial as original. I thought that was the point of this thread but maybe I am wrong.
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27 September 2020, 05:51 AM | #21 | |
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Quote:
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27 September 2020, 06:24 AM | #22 |
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Seems to me that even dealers that are highly respected can have faults. We always say buy the seller but this story has me worried. Michael Morgan is one of the most respected dealers. If he is in fact responsible for reluming the dial and trying to pass it off as original, can anyone be trusted???
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27 September 2020, 06:29 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. Last edited by mailman; 27 September 2020 at 06:59 AM.. Reason: Quoted Content |
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27 September 2020, 06:30 AM | #24 | |
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Quote:
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27 September 2020, 06:34 AM | #25 | |
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The fact that you even pull that out of thin air just to send me a nasty message when this thread clearly has nothing to do with Shear, goes to show just how you are. Get a life man. And like that Frozen song goes.. "let it goo let it gooo"... |
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27 September 2020, 06:49 AM | #26 |
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Springer/Jp: Very tacky, poor form, and irrelevant to bring this up.
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27 September 2020, 06:54 AM | #27 |
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I have bought 6 Rolexes from Springer and a bunch of parts. He has been nothing but excellent to deal with saved me a ton of money on watches I did not buy that had issues. He also helped me buy a few watches from other dealers. I would not trust anyone else at this point with vintage Rolex
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27 September 2020, 06:55 AM | #28 |
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Here we go.. John is rounding up his squad for back up..
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27 September 2020, 06:56 AM | #29 |
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I’m going to invite shear in on this discussion.. should have been done long ago.
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27 September 2020, 06:57 AM | #30 |
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What is still unclear, here or on IG, is whether Michael Morgan disclosed that the GMT was re-lumed when he sold it.
If he disclosed the re-lume when he marketed/sold the watch, he did nothing wrong, regardless of how Stephane advertised the watch when he re-sold it. If Michael didn't disclose the relume when he marketed/sold the watch, that's really bad, obviously. Until that part of this story is clarified, I'll reserve judgement. |
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