6542 engravings

[michel33]

A question to the experts:
I saw a odd engraving on a 6542 case (first pic), I thought at first sight it had been badly re-engraved compared to the second pic of a 100% legit watch.

But maybe I'm wrong and this engraving is genuine and legit? What are your opinions?

[mdw3]

Both are fine.

[Mark020]

But #1 is redone or so?

[springer]

Originally Posted by Mark020

But #1 is redone or so?

But.... #1 appears original and does not appear "redone." Some of the early engravings were pretty poor, especially if the engraver was "having a bad day."

I believe mdw3 has also replied that both engravings appear original too.

[Mark020]

Well: if MDW3 says so I'm the last person to doubt it. However #1 looks to have been made by somebody who indeed had a bad day. A very bad day hence my question whether it was tuned up or so.

[Lgear080]

Wow that is rough

[watchcrank]

I have had several look like this. 1675's, 5513's as well. m

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Mark020

Well: if MDW3 says so I'm the last person to doubt it. However #1 looks to have been made by somebody who indeed had a bad day. A very bad day hence my question whether it was tuned up or so.

Guess he had some beers yesterday . . .

[Michael M.]

As Michael said above, both are correct.

[michel33]

What really surprises me is that the engravings between the lugs, as well as those in the case back and on the watch movement are stamped with a mechanical stamping machine, and it is in no way possible to have such a letterpress printing uneven result as in the pic #1 when using such a mechanical stamping machine.


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This would mean that a few watches had this "registered design" indication engraved manually, while the other engravings such as the serial number, the model ref number (6542) just above, the engravings featuring in the case back and on the movement were correctly mechanically stamped???? I find it weird and hard to believe.


For those who want to know how a stamping machine works, see this video, it features a modern machine but the principle have not evolved since the fifties.
This is how the watch engravings were stamped, not manually but industrially.
One can notice that it is impossible to obtain such an uneven engraving as the one in picture #1 with such a manufacturing process, whether the worker had a bad day or not.

So, if some folks have other picture of such manual engravings, please share them.

[springer]

Case engravings were done with a pantograph machine - different process than engraved stampings.

There have been threads here in the past on these "shaky" case engravings. Many were posted in the Watchout Section.

[michel33]

Thanks for the input.
well, even with a pantograph, I think such an uneven engraving as in picture #1 is weird, because one uses a preexistent engraved metal plate "guide" to do a professional job, just as shown in the picture below.
This is why we can tell if the engravings between the lugs are consistent with the watch era or if they are counterfeited for example.




The pic you posted is nonetheless consistent with a defective pantograph machine or someone who "re-engraved" twice some letters, the curves of the "s" are the same and the lines are still straight.

On the pic # 1 I posted, the letters are badly shaped, and the defects are never the same, look at the E of "DESIGN" for example, the middle bar is pointed down unlike the others...
A defective machine would always reproduce the same defects.

Unless the worker did not use a pre-engraved metal plate as a guide like he should have to achieve a professional job, and did instead a "free hand drawing/engraving", I have difficulties to believe this engraving is legit.



But I red elsewhere that Marcello Pisani also thinks it is a legit engraving, if he comes over here, I would be glad to hear more from him.

[marcello pisani]

bonjour Michel !!
these engravings are perfectly ok !
we have seen them also in other watches ( such as 5513 and milsubs .... )
you can find them from the 50s untill the middle of the 70s ( when Rolex moved to better engraving tools ).
this " trembling " effect doesn't depend on a drunken engraver but from a pantograph ( and guide disks as well ) at the end of their working life.

[Wing Zero]

Man that engraving is rough. Maybe there was a mild earthquake during the engraving?
It's hard to believe an engraving like #1 would pass Quality Control at Rolex.

[michel33]

Hello Marcello,
Thanks for the explanations.
Drunken engraver (or Earthquake) seemed to be a valid explanation to me when I first saw this engraving.

[Wing Zero]

Marcello has spoken.. now I'm wiser for knowing.
Thanks !!

[marcello pisani]

some examples :




some important tips :
a) quality in the past was much lower than today or in the 80s.
b) you can find trembling engravings also in the back-inside of some " special deliveries "
c) when you check lugs engravings the real important things are mutual position, dimension , spacing and fonts of letters and numbers , not to mention engraving depth ( = amount of pression used ).
d) trembling engravings are much harder to counterfate than " perfect " ones :
as usual " bugs " are almost impossible to duplicate.