Beginner: pros and cons of 1603 vs. 16030?

[cnj8w]

Hello--I've been thinking off and on about trying a vintage datejust. I read somewhere (maybe on Hodinkee?) that a vintage DJ can be a nice place to start with Rolex.

I've only started my research and (because of funds and by temperament) I tend to go very slow in making a decision.

But I have found myself drawn to the 1603 and the 16030 references. What are the pros and cons of these two references? Is one preferable to the other?

(I would want the watch to be a more or less daily wearer.)

Thanks very much for your help!

[R.W.T.]

1603 is slow set date and 19800 bph movement w/1570 1560 early versions are 18000 bph

1570 versions from about 66 on. Later hacking.

Probably one of the easiest Rolex movements to service and maintain.

Parts are many. They made literally MILLIONS and MILLIONS of watches with this movement and its derivatives.


16030 is quickset date and 28800 bph movement.

Watch is basically the same animal appearance wise. The dial is flat rather than pie panning at the edge.

Both use acrylic crystals.

Dial selection is a little stronger for swapping on a 16030 because it's simply newer and more original dials exist.

Still serviceable by Rolex.

Really you'll pay a little more for the average 16030 because of the quickset date although the 1603 is now becoming more desirable because of the vintage appeal of all factors...dial styles...slower beat..etc.

You can't go wrong with either really.

The 3035 has some inherent issues with lack of maintenance that are really only addressed by RSC. Barrel bridge is particularly problematic though it won't stop the watch it just makes a messy manual wind, unless it goes REALLY too far and then...it's not so nice.

Buy the one that you love the way it looks!

[crowncollection]

As above there's nothing more to say


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cnj8w]

Thank you RWT! This is exactly what I needed to help me push my thinking further.

I've noticed that most of these watches come on a Jubilee bracelet--and that some people refer to "stretch" in the bracelet. Is this something really important to avoid? (Is an Oyster bracelet preferable? They seem rarer on these watches.)

Also--can I ask what is a reasonable amount to pay for these watches (in, say, mint condition)? Are the prices on a site like Chrono24 in the right ballpark?

Thanks again!

C

[cnj8w]

Also: what kinds of questions should I ask a potential seller to make sure that I get a watch that is in good shape?

Once again, thanks for your help!

C

[R.W.T.]

Well I think you should look around.

Not a lot of weirdness going on in Dj land because they are plentiful and not super expensive. Sure the odd messy one is there but mostly your eyes and intuition can tell you a lot.

Jubilee is the generally supplied bracelet. Oyster is possible but much less common.

Early ones would be folded link type or oval link USA. Later would be D-link current style.

Generally unless stated otherwise you should count on any used watch you buy needing a service.

You can always ask questions here with links to watches I think. Ask for opinions...everybody's got one :-)

You can spend whatever you like.

If it were me especially if you have more than one watch and you will be wearing it off and on....i would go for the 16030. If you're gonna wear it as your main watch....I love the 1570 movement.

They are out there...asking prices are a little higher because everything else is higher.

[cnj8w]

RWT--thanks again! I've started to research the 1570 movement: do you love it because it is a hardier movement than the one in the 16030?

[R.W.T.]

I dunno really. From a user standpoint I've never had any issues with 30xx movements excepting a worn barrel bridge post.

now...if you're asking me to service one...I'd MUCH rather do the 1570.

:-)

As would every watchmaker in the universe probably.

[R.W.T.]

Now the 16030 with the 3035 is typically going to be more accurate than the 1570 overall. Not that you won't have a very accurate 1570 or that they aren't accurate...they ARE!

The faster beat and other improvements help the consistency of the 30xx movements and also they are just newer...they haven't seen as much lack of service and inherent wear from that.

The tolerances on the balance are tighter.

Would you notice on the wrist...not likely. Most people are happy with a few seconds a day.

My 16750 I could get to run within 1 second a day pretty much.

I also have my 1570 GMT 1675 running at + 0 +1 a day but I have the luxury of being able to go in and I'm a bit of a tweaker.

I'm wearing it. I wear it pretty much the same way each day. I can check it and adjust according to my own use. That's not going to be everyone.

I took it on a trip recently and spent a few weeks in a few timezones. I really didn't have to set it between changes in location.

The 3035 is gonna time closer through the positions. It is just better that way.

Will you notice? As I said probably not.

The 3035 is newer. Rolex will still service those watches. There are lots of parts.

The 1570 is easy to work on. It's been around for 50+ years. millions were made. You will always be able to find parts forever probably.

Rolex will very often NOT service them. But certainly many independents are well versed in the movement and it's not an issue really.

Once again you're not going to go wrong with either version and they are not comparatively that expensive either way.

I would buy on what sings to you appearance and appeal wise.

Since they are both acrylic versions...excepting the flat dial for the 3035 on the wrist no one would know one way or the other.

[springer]

Also--can I ask what is a reasonable amount to pay for these watches (in, say, mint condition)? Are the prices on a site like Chrono24 in the right ballpark?

Thanks again!


The vintage "pie pan" Datejusts are great vintage watches as RWT noted in his post. One aspect with this watch is price - they are relatively inexpensive when compared to the sport model variety of vintage Rolex watches available today.

Very nice to mint vintage Datejusts are out there and I would expect to pay anywhere from $2,000 to $2,500 for a correct 1603 model.

Good luck in your search.

[jefe1999]

One thing nobody has mentioned is that the older 1603s have an oval link bracelet. Mine has solid oval links, not folded, and it conforms to my wrist a little better than the D link bracelets I have.

[Brianmac 883]

I think R.W.T. has given you extremely sound and knowledgeable advice. I will only add to his comments on the 1570 movement. I have a vintage ‘70’s OP Date (really just a slightly smaller version of the DateJust) with a recently-serviced 1570 movement, and it’s fantastic. It’s my daily wear watch and it runs about -+1.3 sec./day, day in and day out. Doesn’t matter what position… on my wrist, on a winder, face up on my bedside table… it’s just dead-on consistent. I’ve heard many watchmakers comment that the 15xx series Rolex movements were “overbuilt,” and servicing shouldn’t be a problem at all. I’m amazed that a 40 year-old movement performs this well but, after all, it’s a Rolex. I wouldn’t let the movement caliber dictate your decision… buy the watch that speaks to you from a style (and cost) standpoint.

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Now the 16030 with the 3035 is typically going to be more accurate than the 1570 overall. Not that you won't have a very accurate 1570 or that they aren't accurate...they ARE!

The faster beat and other improvements help the consistency of the 30xx movements and also they are just newer...they haven't seen as much lack of service and inherent wear from that.

The tolerances on the balance are tighter.

Would you notice on the wrist...not likely. Most people are happy with a few seconds a day.

My 16750 I could get to run within 1 second a day pretty much.

I also have my 1570 GMT 1675 running at + 0 +1 a day but I have the luxury of being able to go in and I'm a bit of a tweaker.

I'm wearing it. I wear it pretty much the same way each day. I can check it and adjust according to my own use. That's not going to be everyone.

I took it on a trip recently and spent a few weeks in a few timezones. I really didn't have to set it between changes in location.

The 3035 is gonna time closer through the positions. It is just better that way.

Will you notice? As I said probably not.

The 3035 is newer. Rolex will still service those watches. There are lots of parts.

The 1570 is easy to work on. It's been around for 50+ years. millions were made. You will always be able to find parts forever probably.

Rolex will very often NOT service them. But certainly many independents are well versed in the movement and it's not an issue really.

Once again you're not going to go wrong with either version and they are not comparatively that expensive either way.

I would buy on what sings to you appearance and appeal wise.

Since they are both acrylic versions...excepting the flat dial for the 3035 on the wrist no one would know one way or the other.

Wow! Thank you once again RWT--this is incredibly helpful for me. It's good to know that either the 1603 or 16030 will be good choices. They really appeal to me--especially in the silver dials. It will be a little while before I have the funds ready, but I truly appreciate your insights!

C

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by springer

Also--can I ask what is a reasonable amount to pay for these watches (in, say, mint condition)? Are the prices on a site like Chrono24 in the right ballpark?

Thanks again!


The vintage "pie pan" Datejusts are great vintage watches as RWT noted in his post. One aspect with this watch is price - they are relatively inexpensive when compared to the sport model variety of vintage Rolex watches available today.

Very nice to mint vintage Datejusts are out there and I would expect to pay anywhere from $2,000 to $2,500 for a correct 1603 model.

Good luck in your search.

Thank you, Springer! I gather that a pie pan dial is one that curves downward at the outer edges?

C

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by jefe1999

One thing nobody has mentioned is that the older 1603s have an oval link bracelet. Mine has solid oval links, not folded, and it conforms to my wrist a little better than the D link bracelets I have.

Thank you, Jefe--are you saying that the 16030 and later 1603s are more likely to have folded links? I'll look out for that!

C

[cnj8w]

Moderators--I hope it's ok if I include this link?

As I wrote in one of my replies above, I'm not quite ready to make a purchase--but this is an example of a 1603 that caught my eye. I think it's beautiful!

I spoke with the shop, and they said the watch was serviced in house just before putting it on the site.

Would this count as a reasonable deal for this watch? And does a service by the seller count as a good service?

Thanks so much!

C

[Juggernaut]

Great info, but a couple of additional thoughts...
The 16xx series DJ's have a slightly thinner case.
The 16xxx have slight fancier dial choices (I'm a big fan of the tapestry dials for example).
If you are partial to a certain year (like a birth year for example), that might guide you to one or the other...
The quickset date is a MAJOR advantage on a watch with a date feature...it's a comparable PITA to re-set a non-quickset date, IMO.
It's great you're open to both....shop around and find one that appeals to you. Look closely at condition of the case, the bracelet, and pay especially close attention to the hands and dials...I briefly had a 1600 and I returned it because some of the lume came loose and was moving around and it drove me nuts.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by jefe1999

One thing nobody has mentioned is that the older 1603s have an oval link bracelet. Mine has solid oval links, not folded, and it conforms to my wrist a little better than the D link bracelets I have.

Solid oval links are USA I'm fairly certain.

How much older?

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by cnj8w

Thank you, Jefe--are you saying that the 16030 and later 1603s are more likely to have folded links? I'll look out for that!

C

16030 will have d-links unless it happens to come with Rolex USA. I believe by the time of the 16030 all were Swiss bracelets. Not 100% guarantee but I believe that to be the case.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by cnj8w

Moderators--I hope it's ok if I include this link?

As I wrote in one of my replies above, I'm not quite ready to make a purchase--but this is an example of a 1603 that caught my eye. I think it's beautiful!

I spoke with the shop, and they said the watch was serviced in house just before putting it on the site.

Would this count as a reasonable deal for this watch? And does a service by the seller count as a good service?

Thanks so much!





C

Nothing really wrong here except the description is inaccurate...that's not an oyster bracelet. The pictures are very washed out and low res.

When you have that little contrast it's hard to tell how the lugs really are.

Watch seems okay. Service is a factor. That costs money and like I said if you buy used you just assume unless stated otherwise that you need a service. You can figure a $500.00 average there, so the price of the watch is really less. I personally think you can buy a similar watch for less money and have it serviced and come out better. People are in business to make a living and there is nothing wrong with that. They also may be slightly negotiable. That is a USA bracelet btw. It's also pretty stretched. Dial seems nice.

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

Great info, but a couple of additional thoughts...
The 16xx series DJ's have a slightly thinner case.
The 16xxx have slight fancier dial choices (I'm a big fan of the tapestry dials for example).
If you are partial to a certain year (like a birth year for example), that might guide you to one or the other...
The quickset date is a MAJOR advantage on a watch with a date feature...it's a comparable PITA to re-set a non-quickset date, IMO.
It's great you're open to both....shop around and find one that appeals to you. Look closely at condition of the case, the bracelet, and pay especially close attention to the hands and dials...I briefly had a 1600 and I returned it because some of the lume came loose and was moving around and it drove me nuts.

Thanks, Juggernaut--I hadn;t know the cases are different sizes!

C

[Bonano]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Jubilee is the generally supplied bracelet. Oyster is possible but much less common.

What's the deal with this?
I only noticed after buying my 16013 oyster that the jubilee is far more common on datejusts. It takes awhile for me to find oyster DJ's only google images in the sea of jubilees.

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by Brianmac 883

I think R.W.T. has given you extremely sound and knowledgeable advice. I will only add to his comments on the 1570 movement. I have a vintage ‘70’s OP Date (really just a slightly smaller version of the DateJust) with a recently-serviced 1570 movement, and it’s fantastic. It’s my daily wear watch and it runs about -+1.3 sec./day, day in and day out. Doesn’t matter what position… on my wrist, on a winder, face up on my bedside table… it’s just dead-on consistent. I’ve heard many watchmakers comment that the 15xx series Rolex movements were “overbuilt,” and servicing shouldn’t be a problem at all. I’m amazed that a 40 year-old movement performs this well but, after all, it’s a Rolex. I wouldn’t let the movement caliber dictate your decision… buy the watch that speaks to you from a style (and cost) standpoint.

Thanks, Brianmac--I am fascinated by what you and RWT say about the reliability of the 1570 movement!

[BNA/LION]

WOW!
I Luv this place. A wealth of knowledge here on TRF!

Thank you guys!!!!

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Nothing really wrong here except the description is inaccurate...that's not an oyster bracelet. The pictures are very washed out and low res.

When you have that little contrast it's hard to tell how the lugs really are.

Watch seems okay. Service is a factor. That costs money and like I said if you buy used you just assume unless stated otherwise that you need a service. You can figure a $500.00 average there, so the price of the watch is really less. I personally think you can buy a similar watch for less money and have it serviced and come out better. People are in business to make a living and there is nothing wrong with that. They also may be slightly negotiable. That is a USA bracelet btw. It's also pretty stretched. Dial seems nice.

OK--this is super helpful: my unpracticed eyes thought that the bracelet looked good: so this helps me start to calibrate my judgment about bracelet stretch.

[R.W.T.]

There's nothing WRONG with the bracelet but the description says Oyster...and it's a jubilee. That's a HUGE price difference if the watch is from 1967.

In 1967 the oyster bracelet would have been a riveted bracelet.

Even for a C and I that's 1200.00 for a Swiss....maybe 2k.

Truly ... I bought a 16xx date just for the swiss rivet oyster bracelet....it was worth more than the head.

[jefe1999]

[QUOTE=R.W.T.;6428917]Solid oval links are USA I'm fairly certain.

Yes, my bracelet is a USA Rolex bracelet, but I believe based on a post I recently read, it was made by JB Champion. 14k/SS.

[R.W.T.]

Yes J B Champion made the oval link USA Jubilee Bracelets.

Not all early 1603's were supplied with J B Champion Jubilee Bracelets.

That is all that I was trying to clarify.

The different bracelets and origins, crossovers etc., may not be known by everyone. :-)

[cnj8w]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

There's nothing WRONG with the bracelet but the description says Oyster...and it's a jubilee. That's a HUGE price difference if the watch is from 1967.

In 1967 the oyster bracelet would have been a riveted bracelet.

Even for a C and I that's 1200.00 for a Swiss....maybe 2k.

Truly ... I bought a 16xx date just for the swiss rivet oyster bracelet....it was worth more than the head.

I see: so 1960s (riveted?) oyster bracelets are more desirable than jubilees. I just googled them: very handsome bracelets indeed!

Could you explain "C and I"?

Here is another watch from the same seller that also caught my eye. Again, they said that they have just serviced the watch. It's more expensive, and I am trying to understand what makes it so. (It has an oyster bracelet, but from 1977--and does not look like the riveted kind you mentioned.)

Thank you again: I had not realized how much there is to learn!

C

[cnj8w]

RWT--it also sounded like, from one of your other posts, that it would make more sense to look for a watch for less and then get it serviced. Are there places one can/should go besides sellers like the one I've linked to?

(I hope this question follows forum rules. If not, I will remove it!)

C