The tenor of the Patek sub-Forum on TRF...be a gentleman

[nyc2la]

Be a gentleman.

As a fairly active member since early 2014 with a respectable number of posts, I see the tenor of the Patek sub-forum on TRF changing.

I view TRF, which is public internet forum, as a place where watch enthusiasts can engage, share ideas, and without judgement, share with words and photos in a passion of luxury goods that in today’s world could be perceived as showing off. Even the most entry level Rolex, for example, could be considered “showing off” for most of the population. We, as watch owners, enthusiasts, and collectors, are fortunate. I will never discount the hard work that goes into one’s success (yes, there are those who are given or bequeathed large sums, but good for them, no judgement), but I always will be grateful for the opportunities I was given. I have tried, and continue to do so, to take advantage of these opportunities with utmost integrity and concern for others, and to provide for my family and for others in need and charities.

However, the TRF Patek sub-forum is bubbling with a more antagonistic tone that is unbecoming and counter to why TRF has been (and hopefully will continue to be) the best watch forum on the internet. Of course there will be differences in tastes, likes, and dislikes. Of course some will like a brand whereas others will not, or some will like a particular watch and others will not, or some will have given-up on a brand because of a change of heart based on his experience with it or the brand’s direction. So be it. As someone who has learned a lot on this Forum, yet who has a lot more to learn, I welcome these opinions and experiences.

However, it’s not what you say, but how you say it. And this is NOT a conversation about being politically correct, so let’s get that out of the way right now. This is about being a gentleman / lady. It’s about being polite, courteous, and respectful. As has been said on other threads, if you don’t have anything positive to say, it is okay to say nothing at all. If you care to voice your dissent, just do it with respect. Choosing words that obviously are antagonistic is not necessary and degrades the fabric of TRF. Pretend you are face-to-face with the individual to whom you are responding. If you still communicate with such disdain, then you probably don't have too many friends anyway.

I will end on this: There are some incredible people on this Forum. I’ve been fortunate enough to meet many members at GTG’s, both locally in Los Angeles and San Diego, as well as in Las Vegas. It’s a diverse, international group with a common interest – watches. BUT that's where it starts. They are just good people, too.

Let’s maintain a proper decorum, one of professionalism, respect, and courtesy. Let's be ladies and gentlemen.

Best,
Steve

[archer75]

Can not agree more - we are sharing an hobby, we learn from each other a lot and there are a lot more to learn, share and enjoy together.


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[Peterandwatches]

That would be fantastic, but I assume this will fall on deaf ears, or justifications of "he started it."

Perhaps this the new normal. The rest of the internet is mired in toxic comments and hate; why should it not eventually reach our shores?

[Oryx]

agree - nice to have healthy debates but it should not go beyond that

[Arclight]

I agree completely! Now where are those bastards with the ugly watches!

[incontrol]

I agree Steve. I have had a lot of fun here, learned much and have met many great people. Let's keep this forum up beat and friendly.


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[Chiboy]

I come to this forum to learn, and to enjoy the hobby. Like with car forums that I have been on, there are some folks who you just know you wouldn't like in real life. But on a forum, it is a lot easier to ignore them than at a cocktail party or a dinner. So I usually try very hard to not engage people who I think are either deliberately antagonistic or lack a sense of humor. This is supposed to be fun!

I also have to stop myself from once in a while saying, "Damn, that is the UGLIEST, most garish watch I've ever seen! I wouldn't wear it if it were free!"

Edit: I removed a negative comment I made on another thread about a watch I don't fully appreciate.

Anyway, good comments from NY2LA. I'm surprised the bouncer hasn't tossed me outta here already given my lack of PP watches.

[RussW]

Fully agree Steve. This has always been a friendly forum, let’s all be courteous. My own observation is that there’s been an undercurrent of criticising Patek and Thierry Stern for some time now, which to me seemed to start when Patek dropped prices a few years ago, together with some service issues.

Now I’m not saying we all have to agree that everything Patek does is wonderful, but there is a question of whether this is a sub forum primarily for Patek enthusiasts or is it a forum for anyone to weigh in with their thoughts on Patek. I’d say it should be the former, but with healthy debate on what’s good / bad about Patek. However, it seems to have become the latter to me and it can get tiring and I think that’s driving some of the behaviour. Some of the posts feel like trolling, so let’s rise above it.

[GB-man]

Agreed. Unfortunately it's on the AP forum too and of course exists in the general Rolex discussion.

People like to exercise their freedom of speech online and people often say things they wouldn't dream of saying in real life.

I am very thankful this place is not nearly as bad as most car forums which are generally poorly moderated and full of egotistical loons.

[MoosicPa]

I completely agree, this should be a forum to exchange ideas, information and thoughts on PP and it's magnificent watches. When a member takes the time out of their day to post a pic or two of their watches for the forum, that effort should be applauded and derided. Let's be honest, it takes time to take the pic, download it, and then post it to the forums. This is time any of us could spend elsewhere, but we choose to spend it here. My Mother always told me if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. That's a policy I try to follow.

[kneedeep]

Agree with you, Steve. Nicely put.

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by RussW

Now I’m not saying we all have to agree that everything Patek does is wonderful, but there is a question of whether this is a sub forum primarily for Patek enthusiasts or is it a forum for anyone to weigh in with their thoughts on Patek. I’d say it should be the former, but with healthy debate on what’s good / bad about Patek.

It's really hard to know what you are saying. Is it OK to criticise PP or TS, or is it not OK?

I like some PPs, and I own a couple, but I think with the best will in the world it would be pretty tough to like them all. There are issues with service times, the reissue of a discontinued reference, price cutting (some might think that was OK), and some recent releases which haven't met with universal acclaim. Can we discuss those issues?

If it is agreed that we can't, then we'll end up with endless "Congrats".

[Socal to az]

Steve- well put.

I'll apologize to everyone as it seems hat I've been in the middle of some recent contentious threads. It's not my intent to be a jerk but when attacked, I respond in kind.

Regardless- well written words and I'll do my best to take your advice.

[HorologyK]

It’s a watch blog. Chill people.


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[Hollister]

Originally Posted by HorologyK

It’s a watch blog. Chill people.

Yep, nobody died, which in my profession is a hell of a relief!

[RussW]

Originally Posted by Hollister

It's really hard to know what you are saying. Is it OK to criticise PP or TS, or is it not OK?

I like some PPs, and I own a couple, but I think with the best will in the world it would be pretty tough to like them all. There are issues with service times, the reissue of a discontinued reference, price cutting (some might think that was OK), and some recent releases which haven't met with universal acclaim. Can we discuss those issues?

If it is agreed that we can't, then we'll end up with endless "Congrats".

To put it simply, less posts that are verging on trolling would be good. Not directed at anyone in particular.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Hollister

Yep, nobody died, which in my profession is a hell of a relief!

I figured you to be a mortician I am kidding of course, just going for the attempt at humor.

[kitsgq]

Well said, Steve. I too noticed the tone of many posts to be written in bad faith. At the end of the day, we are watch enthusiasts who have varied tastes. If we can't find common ground and positive things to say, then why come here to comment in the fist place?


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[Javier1971]

Can’t we all just get along..

[Tony64]

I thought this was going to be a discussion about Plácido Domingo's Patek collection.

Carry on.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I thought this was going to be a discussion about Plácido Domingo's Patek collection.

Carry on.

At least I had the courtesy to say I was trying to be funny, in your case...

[AK797]

Well said, Steve, and directly quoted below from the other Steve, our Big Boss, on the kind of conduct expected if one is to remain a member:

"I doubt very much "plenty of people" have come up to you in the street and told you that your watch is "hideous".

I find it a rather extreme statement to make about another person's watch. A watch is such a personal item of choice that for you to tell someone that their watch is 'hideous' is really saying that they have no taste or ability to discern quality. So it is in effect a personal insult. At the very least it is a negative statement in an extreme sense.

The rules of this website dictate that you do not insult other members. I can understand you saying, "the hands are too large" or the "size of the case is too large". That is fine.

"Hideous" is easily and plainly construed as: extremely ugly, horrid, detestable, odious, monstrous, dreadful, appalling, ghastly.

If we allow people to insult others this community will disintegrate. Its about making measured responses, not insults, that fosters friendly objective discussion.

If you go out in the community and go around telling people that their shirt, shoes, car, wedding ring or such other personal item is 'hideous' I don't think you will have to wait too long before you provoke either a angry oral or physical response.

We don't condone such responses and we don't in the first place condone activity that may unreasonable give rise to such responses.

I hope you (and everyone else) get the import of this message, because it is the first and last time I'm going to say it.

Sometimes if you can't say anything nice or constructive, its best not to say anything at all."

[toucan]

Stephen well said!
However, the tone of many threads lately, at least to me , appear to be
"I'm so great I have this watch." Kind of off putting . I normally don't comment on these but others do , creating a toxic environment.

[Tay821]

This was nice to hear as I've found myself on here less lately, which isn't supposed to be given I'm relatively new (compared to many here). I'm here to learn and be a part of a fortunate community

[benlee]

Fully agreed. Actually, TRF ( and that is refer to all sub forums as well ), even with the recently more antagonistic tone, is comparatively milder than a lot of internet forums on other hobbies and subjects. In a large group of people, whether in a forum like this or in a real life setting, there are bound to be unpleasant people around who always think they are right and cannot accept / respect a different point of view. But proportionally, there are still a majority of nice folks around ( and also the Mods here are excellent ) and it's for them that I still want to continue to be part of this community.

[Chiboy]

I find most of the folks here are nice enough. Sure there are people who can't take a picture of their watch without getting their steering wheel in the picture (spoiler alert: it's not usually a Ford Focus). And there are a few people who are always snarky. I had someone who, when I posted my new(ish) platinum Daytona intro thread, congratulated me with something like, "I hope you paid less than $xx,xxx for it." I don't even know who it was, but I learned more about him that he probably wanted me to know, lol. It's best to just ignore the annoying people and annoying threads. But every once in a while, someone pushes your buttons and it's hard to ignore. Damn those World Class Trolls!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by benlee

Fully agreed. Actually, TRF ( and that is refer to all sub forums as well ), even with the recently more antagonistic tone, is comparatively milder than a lot of internet forums on other hobbies and subjects. In a large group of people, whether in a forum like this or in a real life setting, there are bound to be unpleasant people around who always think they are right and cannot accept / respect a different point of view. But proportionally, there are still a majority of nice folks around ( and also the Mods here are excellent ) and it's for them that I still want to continue to be part of this community.

Good to see you posting Ben!

Only 5 months until sihh 2018

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by AK797

Well said, Steve, and directly quoted below from the other Steve, our Big Boss, on the kind of conduct expected if one is to remain a member:

"I doubt very much "plenty of people" have come up to you in the street and told you that your watch is "hideous".

I find it a rather extreme statement to make about another person's watch. A watch is such a personal item of choice that for you to tell someone that their watch is 'hideous' is really saying that they have no taste or ability to discern quality. So it is in effect a personal insult. At the very least it is a negative statement in an extreme sense.

The rules of this website dictate that you do not insult other members. I can understand you saying, "the hands are too large" or the "size of the case is too large". That is fine.

"Hideous" is easily and plainly construed as: extremely ugly, horrid, detestable, odious, monstrous, dreadful, appalling, ghastly.

If we allow people to insult others this community will disintegrate. Its about making measured responses, not insults, that fosters friendly objective discussion.

If you go out in the community and go around telling people that their shirt, shoes, car, wedding ring or such other personal item is 'hideous' I don't think you will have to wait too long before you provoke either a angry oral or physical response.

We don't condone such responses and we don't in the first place condone activity that may unreasonable give rise to such responses.

I hope you (and everyone else) get the import of this message, because it is the first and last time I'm going to say it.

Sometimes if you can't say anything nice or constructive, its best not to say anything at all."

After reading this I sort of feel like a jerk. I've definitely called a watch or two hideous before. Some watches really bring it out of me.

Such is life I guess. I'll try harder next time

[Lordofrolex]

X2

[tng11]

Very well said Steve.

As a general rule of thumb, I never write anything on the internet I would not say in real life, face-to-face to the person(s) I am addressing my words to. It's not difficult to figure out who I am in real life, and I have no problem with it, as I don't use the internet as an anonymous platform to express my hidden thoughts. I don't believe that we should all give each other pats on the back and only post gushing and over the top positive comments, but you can be critical without being uncivil or rude.

People often take advantage of the perceived cloak of anonymity to act in an uncivil and boorish manner - and when they get exposed, well, that's embarrassing for them (and it may even have real social and livelihood consequences!)