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Old 4 February 2020, 11:22 PM   #1531
cop414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Wanderer View Post
Hi everyone,

First of all, and since this is my first post on this forum, I would like to thank TRF for offering a place where everyone can speak freely about this topic. I have been following the thread since page 4 and cannot stress my sympathy enough to the victims of Chris Essery/HH.

I feel like everything on this character has pretty much already been said and so won't dwell repeating what others have expressed better than I could.

However, I would like to suggest an idea and see if it can gather some traction since more than 352,000 views (and counting) have already been made on these 51 pages alone: can a trusted member of this community help raise a fundraiser online to try to financially support the victims of this scam as it is very unlikely that they will see any money coming back from Mr Essery himself?

The key here would be trust in both the person raising the fundraiser and the persons susceptible to receive the money back to ensure that the right amount goes back to the right people.

What do you people think of this idea? I know that some might think that the money lost by the victims should be considered disposable income due to the nature of the transaction (buying a Rolex). However, I do not believe that this should be considered to be the case as some people might save for years before they can even think of buying this kind of watches.

I myself would participate to this fundraising if assurance can be given that the money would go to the victims, and seeing how this community is having each other's back, hopefully it wouldn't take long before a nice sum can be gathered to help the victims of this scam.

Thank you for your time.

Ocean Wanderer
While I applaud your idea TRF is not the proper platform from which to launch this. We are not a fund raising site. Maybe Facebook or Instagram?
Best of luck if you do decide to take this on.
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Old 4 February 2020, 11:23 PM   #1532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Wanderer View Post
Hi everyone,

First of all, and since this is my first post on this forum, I would like to thank TRF for offering a place where everyone can speak freely about this topic. I have been following the thread since page 4 and cannot stress my sympathy enough to the victims of Chris Essery/HH.

I feel like everything on this character has pretty much already been said and so won't dwell repeating what others have expressed better than I could.

However, I would like to suggest an idea and see if it can gather some traction since more than 352,000 views (and counting) have already been made on these 51 pages alone: can a trusted member of this community help raise a fundraiser online to try to financially support the victims of this scam as it is very unlikely that they will see any money coming back from Mr Essery himself?

The key here would be trust in both the person raising the fundraiser and the persons susceptible to receive the money back to ensure that the right amount goes back to the right people.

What do you people think of this idea? I know that some might think that the money lost by the victims should be considered disposable income due to the nature of the transaction (buying a Rolex). However, I do not believe that this should be considered to be the case as some people might save for years before they can even think of buying this kind of watches.

I myself would participate to this fundraising if assurance can be given that the money would go to the victims, and seeing how this community is having each other's back, hopefully it wouldn't take long before a nice sum can be gathered to help the victims of this scam.

Thank you for your time.

Ocean Wanderer
Absolutely not.

I admire the sentiment, however as you already alluded to, the victims were buying Rolexs, not paying for life saving surgery.

Secondly, this is why people use credit cards, PayPal, pay for insurance. If someone is in a position to spend tens of thousands on a watch, but neglects to insure the transaction in some way, then that's their fault. I still sympathize with the victims in this case, but I also sympathize with people who break their ankle skiing.
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Old 4 February 2020, 11:30 PM   #1533
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Originally Posted by Zebedy101 View Post
This will be an unpopular opinion but...I never fell for or liked the idea of Buying a Rolex or any high value item second hand...no matter what. My sentiment is that if you haven't got the full funds to walk into an AD and pay retail you have no business trying to save a few dollars looking on the grey market or second hand etc. You will never be able to replicate the knowledge that you bought it from new and you know the full history of that watch. Cant get it at the AD you say? tough ..and for those who get sucked into this hype and craze of the SS Rolex ... I don't have to much sympathy.
You also seem not to have much empathy.

Example 1:
I can't relate - half my collection is from ADs and half bought pre-owned. My enjoyment of the watches has not differed at the slightest. And with some pre-owned dealers my buying experience was actually better than at the AD - and I have quite a fabulous AD here.

Apart from that when you buy a beaten up old "barn find" and restore it to it's full glory, this can be immensely satisfying. Ask vintage car guys ;-)

My wife wanted a specific Breitling (don't ask) - we had already given up on ever finding a good one. Eventually I secretly found one but it was in terrible condition (chrono hand floating around the dial, scratches, strap broken). A new custom made strap for my wife's small wrist, a full maintenance service at the service center, some of my own elbow grease and a new clasp later it looks and ticks as new and my wife is over the moon. Wears it more than her Rolex, Chanel, Tags etc. she adores this watch and me for finding it and getting it on her wrist. Not bad for a more than 20 year old watch. It only gets beaten by her father's (former IAF Air Commodore) 40 year old HMT watch. But that's another story.

Example 2:
My dad was a stadium speaker (pro bono) at the Summer Olympics 1972 - Longines was the official timekeeper. The (very)senior volunteers and executives got a special commemorative watch with an engraving on the caseback. My Dad was at the time not senior enough. Last year after many years looking out for one, I got him one of these watches (pre-owned of course) for his birthday - you have no idea how happy he is with this manual wind Longines from 1972. This watch means more to him than all the other watches he bought new.

Cheers

Sorry for being off topic - coming back to HH
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Old 4 February 2020, 11:37 PM   #1534
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Originally Posted by Gui Gui View Post
Think this proves once and for all that Omega make better watches than Rolex. Too hard for the Chinese to counterfeit.
No, it proves nobody wants a fake Omega, just like they don’t want real ones.
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Old 4 February 2020, 11:44 PM   #1535
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Originally Posted by Zebedy101 View Post
This will be an unpopular opinion but...I never fell for or liked the idea of Buying a Rolex or any high value item second hand...no matter what. My sentiment is that if you haven't got the full funds to walk into an AD and pay retail you have no business trying to save a few dollars looking on the grey market or second hand etc. You will never be able to replicate the knowledge that you bought it from new and you know the full history of that watch. Cant get it at the AD you say? tough ..and for those who get sucked into this hype and craze of the SS Rolex ... I don't have to much sympathy.
Not only an outrageous victim shaming, but also ridiculous comment.

Aside from the difficulty getting new watches, from all major brands these days, even including Omega for some items, let alone AP, Patek, Lange, and more, buying “second hand” new is actually way more expensive than buying retail, for many models. So your insults about not having enough funds is not even close to the reality of buying popular models from the grey market.

And, if you want an older, discontinued watch, you have no choice but to buy second hand. Many older watches are highly desirable.
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Old 4 February 2020, 11:46 PM   #1536
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Originally Posted by DJRikki View Post
Blue Fish uploaded a video having read about 5 pages into this thread and got schooled in the comments because he wasnt convinced of things (having not read further).

When pointed in the right direction he said he didnt care anyway ... then deleted the video due to everyone else saying "why make a video without actually researching things" ...

Its still on one of my browser tabs so I can still watch it/download it locally.
Do you guys never give up? Now I remember why I unsubscribed from your podcast.
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Old 4 February 2020, 11:57 PM   #1537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebedy101 View Post
This will be an unpopular opinion but...I never fell for or liked the idea of Buying a Rolex or any high value item second hand...no matter what. My sentiment is that if you haven't got the full funds to walk into an AD and pay retail you have no business trying to save a few dollars looking on the grey market or second hand etc. You will never be able to replicate the knowledge that you bought it from new and you know the full history of that watch. Cant get it at the AD you say? tough ..and for those who get sucked into this hype and craze of the SS Rolex ... I don't have to much sympathy.
Save a few dollars looking on the grey or second hand market? Last I checked, buying a Rolex Daytona second hand or from a grey costs way more than retail.

And please, let's stop talking about this Horology House scandal as somehow representative for the used market as a whole. Same rules apply as always: Buy the seller first.

When buying from one of the old trusted sellers with a brick and mortar store, your experience can rival or even surpass the one from an AD. And when buying from a private individual, well, one needs to check history, provenance and as much else as possible. For example, buying from an established member of the community is one way to minimize the risk.

Chris from Horology House gave the impression of being a trustworthy and passionate watch lover who would've been as safe to do business with as any old and established member of the watch community. But this impression all came from presentation, not substance. At the end of the day, Horology House only came on to the scene a couple of years ago, and his undeniable skill in photography and production lent him an air of credibility and professionalism.

It is understandable that people trusted him. I mean, aside from the normal assumption that most people are decent and moral, who would ruin their entire business and brand by selling fakes like this? It's insane. But it just goes to show that presentation alone is, well, just that. There's not necessarily any moral integrity behind the nice facade.
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Old 5 February 2020, 12:20 AM   #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui Gui View Post



Secondly, this is why people use credit cards, PayPal, pay for insurance. If someone is in a position to spend tens of thousands on a watch, but neglects to insure the transaction in some way, then that's their fault.

No it isn't their fault. There might have been safer options but being scammed is not the victims fault.
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Old 5 February 2020, 12:31 AM   #1539
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While it's true that being scammed is not the victim's fault, we all lock our doors at night even though being burgled is never the victim's fault.
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Old 5 February 2020, 12:39 AM   #1540
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Rolex is more than a watch, it is a state of mind. Almost everyone wants to get it. After reading this topic, each of us will be more careful in choosing your seller (if it is not AD).
This is a valuable lesson for all of us and a reminder that you need to think three times before finally clicking on the option - make a transfer.
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Old 5 February 2020, 12:44 AM   #1541
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It seems that this thread has run its course.

It's straying off topic and the subject of inappropriate posts which defelect from the serious nature of the conduct of the individual concerned.
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Old 5 February 2020, 03:06 AM   #1542
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This was definitely the right move Steve. Between the profanity, victim shaming, new members opening multiple accounts not to mention the infighting and usurping of moderators authority this has run its course.
The thread has not been removed but closed so it’s still out there for all to see.
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Old 5 February 2020, 08:13 PM   #1543
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Have to agree and some are lucky quite a few more did not get banned.
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