Opinions on white 1680?

[jtg]

Hello all,

I am considering purchasing this all-white 1680 sub date, 3.9m serial #. I'd be very grateful for any second opinions on whether this would be a good buy.

My initial thoughts are: dial (mk1, lume plots seemed nice in person) and hands look good; insert is (I think) service, but it can always be upgraded later; case is (it seems to me) polished, but still a good amount of metal on the lugs. Bracelet seems to be a replacement with a fairly worn coronet on the clasp (didn't get a photo, sorry), but it's in good condition generally with little stretch.

One thing I was a little sure of was that the lugs aren't quite as thick as an unpolished example would be, but the chamfers are quite sharp. I'm OK with a watch that has been polished (almost all watches this old have been) but one thing I am wary of is cases that have been laser welded/restored (i.e. metal added to the original case -- the sort of polishing RSC might do doesn't bother me at all). Is there any way to tell is this has been done? Does this even make sense? Or am I just being paranoid?

Overall, the watch seems good to me, but as I'm fairly new to the hobby, I'm inevitably worried I'm missing something. Apologies if I've overdone it with the large photos. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.


https://imgur.com/3goc8Po
https://imgur.com/HdCl9RW
https://imgur.com/kuE8kSa
https://imgur.com/GpLXwob
https://imgur.com/OCbW9TJ
https://imgur.com/3XMEFyf
https://imgur.com/Gs6T6jF
https://imgur.com/T4G3bTX
https://imgur.com/38Lz1Lx
https://imgur.com/KVoKtEH
https://imgur.com/Lp08n6I
https://imgur.com/yGlaOD0
https://imgur.com/gIZRF4i
https://imgur.com/Igl8jON

(EDIT: Apologies - I had trouble embedding the images - may be due to size, I don't know).

Cheers.

[Styles Bitchley]

For sure the case has been recut. Rolex doesn’t re add chamfers to vintage cases when polishing. Insert is a service.

[FrenchBigCrown]

The dial looks nice enough.

[bob78h]

Pretty sure that case has been recut, but looks like a well done job. Judging by the thickness of the lugs/crown guards the case was in pretty good shape before.

Crystal has been polished enough times that the cyclops magnification is reduced.

Is that a service insert? The font looks fairly thin compared by my 1680.

[narembeen]

What is recut?

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by narembeen

What is recut?

Someone has reshaped the case to resemble the lines that would have been there out of the factory. Polishing shines up the case so it looks bright and shiny after a service but it softens the crisp factory edges. A watch this old that has been worn would not have sharp edges like the one in the photo. It’s a good job though as someone mentioned, so it’s not necessary bad thing but the seller should be saying so.

[nolesrule101]

Looks like a good buy to me!

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by nolesrule101

Looks like a good buy to me!

Why? You don’t know the price.

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by jtg

Hello all,

I am considering purchasing this all-white 1680 sub date, 3.9m serial #. I'd be very grateful for any second opinions on whether this would be a good buy.

My initial thoughts are: dial (mk1, lume plots seemed nice in person) and hands look good; insert is (I think) service, but it can always be upgraded later; case is (it seems to me) polished, but still a good amount of metal on the lugs. Bracelet seems to be a replacement with a fairly worn coronet on the clasp (didn't get a photo, sorry), but it's in good condition generally with little stretch.

One thing I was a little sure of was that the lugs aren't quite as thick as an unpolished example would be, but the chamfers are quite sharp. I'm OK with a watch that has been polished (almost all watches this old have been) but one thing I am wary of is cases that have been laser welded/restored (i.e. metal added to the original case -- the sort of polishing RSC might do doesn't bother me at all). Is there any way to tell is this has been done? Does this even make sense? Or am I just being paranoid?

Overall, the watch seems good to me, but as I'm fairly new to the hobby, I'm inevitably worried I'm missing something. Apologies if I've overdone it with the large photos. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.


https://imgur.com/3goc8Po
https://imgur.com/HdCl9RW
https://imgur.com/kuE8kSa
https://imgur.com/GpLXwob
https://imgur.com/OCbW9TJ
https://imgur.com/3XMEFyf
https://imgur.com/Gs6T6jF
https://imgur.com/T4G3bTX
https://imgur.com/38Lz1Lx
https://imgur.com/KVoKtEH
https://imgur.com/Lp08n6I
https://imgur.com/yGlaOD0
https://imgur.com/gIZRF4i
https://imgur.com/Igl8jON

(EDIT: Apologies - I had trouble embedding the images - may be due to size, I don't know).

Cheers.

It’s going to be extremely difficult to find an unpolished 1680. Even if they say it’s unpolished, it’s probably not. Unless you are finding an unserviced 1 owner 1680, it’s probably been polished. Nobody thought about this stuff 20 years ago. Nobody cared. Looks pretty decent, what’s the price?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jtg]

Thanks for all the feedback. Price is (after converting from HKD) approx. US$11,500. It seems fairly priced to me. Obviously have to factor in that it’s a service insert (maybe a new crystal too). It’s from a reputable & well-known HK dealer, and generally I’d be happy to pay a little more for the protection & the benefit of their knowledge. Also the ability to see the watch in person, vs buying online, is important for me.

shaunylw is right about almost all 1680s being polished. As for the fact it’s recut, I still haven’t quite made up my mind. Am I right in saying it’s largely a matter of personal preference? Seems like some people prefer the sharp-edged look and some would rather keep the worn edges from typical DSC polishing. The case on this one looks pretty good in person, and the dial has the creamy patina I’m looking for. I’ll make a decision in a couple of days. In the meantime, if anyone has anything else to add I’d be very grateful.

[Swearengen]

Question: I know there aren't many (if any) Red 1680s over 4.0m s/n, are there any White 1680s below 4.0m?

This White is 3.9m so is it a possible re-dial?

[jtg]

Originally Posted by Swearengen

Question: I know there aren't many (if any) Red 1680s over 4.0m s/n, are there any White 1680s below 4.0m?

This White is 3.9m so is it a possible re-dial?

Wow, good point. There was a discussion about this here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...=192774&page=3

Certainly gives me pause if it’s a likely redial.

[OliverD]

The dial isn't a service dial so for this to have been a red sub someone would have had to replace the dial with an original white 1680 dial, which is reasonably unlikely.

I have heard of white subs starting around 3.8/3.9 but obviously you have to go with what you are comfortable with.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by Swearengen

Question: I know there aren't many (if any) Red 1680s over 4.0m s/n, are there any White 1680s below 4.0m?



This White is 3.9m so is it a possible re-dial?

I think it’s close enough. Especially since it’s a mk 1 and not higher. It’d be a little more comforting if it were 3.98 or 3.99 and not 3.90. Inside case back would be helpful too.

[stevedssd]

Originally Posted by OliverD

The dial isn't a service dial so for this to have been a red sub someone would have had to replace the dial with an original white 1680 dial, which is reasonably unlikely.

I have heard of white subs starting around 3.8/3.9 but obviously you have to go with what you are comfortable with.

This prompted me to post in the reference section.....hopefully it helps support that a 3.8 serial could have had a white Mk1 as it's original dial.

If some disagree that's fine

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...8#post10770978

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by stevedssd

This prompted me to post in the reference section.....hopefully it helps support that a 3.8 serial could have had a white Mk1 as it's original dial.

If some disagree that's fine

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...8#post10770978

What an interesting thread. There’s so much written about the red sub dials but the white doesn’t get much love.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by stevedssd

This prompted me to post in the reference section.....hopefully it helps support that a 3.8 serial could have had a white Mk1 as it's original dial.



If some disagree that's fine



https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...8#post10770978

Thank you.

[jtg]

Originally Posted by stevedssd

This prompted me to post in the reference section.....hopefully it helps support that a 3.8 serial could have had a white Mk1 as it's original dial.

If some disagree that's fine

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...8#post10770978

Thanks, this is very useful indeed. Nice to see there are a few of us who like the white dial.

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

I think it’s close enough. Especially since it’s a mk 1 and not higher. It’d be a little more comforting if it were 3.98 or 3.99 and not 3.90. Inside case back would be helpful too.

The one I've shared photos of has a 3.93 serial. After reading some of the additional material linked to, I don't think it's anything to be worried about. Some recent examples below 4m from HQ Milton (I'm guessing these were included in stevedssd's thread):

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ner-1680-A2408
https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...k-1-dial-A2283
https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ner-1680-A3356

[springer]

Originally Posted by stevedssd

This prompted me to post in the reference section.....hopefully it helps support that a 3.8 serial could have had a white Mk1 as it's original dial.

If some disagree that's fine

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...8#post10770978

I've seen many 3.8 million 1680s with the Mark I white lettered Submariner dials. I've also owned one in the past - over 10 years ago. The 1680s were available during the end of production with these Mark I dials without the Submariner printing in red.

This topic has been discussed here in the past on TRF.

[Swearengen]

Very interesting info of s/ns

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[suligeo]

3.9 Serial with white is absolutely ok


https://www.instagram.com/vintage_georgex/

[narembeen]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Someone has reshaped the case to resemble the lines that would have been there out of the factory. Polishing shines up the case so it looks bright and shiny after a service but it softens the crisp factory edges. A watch this old that has been worn would not have sharp edges like the one in the photo. It’s a good job though as someone mentioned, so it’s not necessary bad thing but the seller should be saying so.

ok thanks, I didnt know that was possible, looks great!

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by narembeen

ok thanks, I didnt know that was possible, looks great!

Outfits in California like LA Watchworks and Rolliworks have gotten a good reputation for doing this well. Note, however, that many collectors have no interest in a watch if this has been done to it. I agree that it looks great though!