Need advice: 5227R or 5296R??

[phdezra]

Hi all,

I have a small assortment of watches (usual bunch Breitling, Rolex, IWC) and now considering a Patek Philippe. Looking very closely at two models and need advice/thoughts:

5296R-010 Calatrava, 18k rose gold $25k

or

5227R-001 Calatrava, 18k rose gold $24k

Prices are same, condition on both are Like New with box, papers. I realize the 5296R is 38mm while the 5227R is 39mm. The latter has the hunter style “dust” cover whereas the 5296R has a simple display back. I am leaning toward the 5227R, not because of the $1k savings, but because of size (though 1mm hardly noticeable). I also like the crown “standing out” on the 5227R, but not that it’s a big plus.

What else am I missing? The dials are near identical; THAT is my biggest puzzle. Thoughts?

Thank you.

[Ichiran]

The 5227 is a superior watch IMO. It has a concave dome bezel which gives the watch a better profile, and the lugs are scalloped. I would get the 5227 of the 2.

[ts3]

Surprised they can be had for the same amount these days. The MSRP for the 5296 was a lot lower than for the 5227 (e.g. EUR 24k vs 31k back in 2018). On my wirst I found both a little large with their empty dials and narrow bezels. Probably just my oldfashioned self when it comes to simple dress watches.

[Rushne]

5227 would be my choice as well.
Love the hunter case back and scalloped lugs.
Both are lovely watches so you can’t really go wrong.

[phdezra]

Annnnd I forgot to add a third consideration, 5127R for $18k. It is smaller at 37mm, but would I notice it that much, and it is $6k cheaper than the 5227R that I am strongly considering.

?

[ts3]

Originally Posted by phdezra

Annnnd I forgot to add a third consideration, 5127R for $18k. It is smaller at 37mm, but would I notice it that much, and it is $6k cheaper than the 5227R that I am strongly considering.

?

This is really an matter of personal taste (and price) only. If you haven't done so you should try them all on IRL and decide on that basis. Shouldn't be a hard thing to do in NYC.

[MadSpaniard]

5227R all the way (although I'm biased, as I own one).

I think you will regret the smaller 5127. Yes, you save some money with the 5127, but the 5227R offers significantly more in terms of a notably more contemporary size, the scalloped and curved lugs, and the hinged case back.

Have fun making your choice. Cheers.

[LDesp]

I have been asking myself the exact same question for over a year. I still haven't cracked it, so I'm unable to answer the poll unfortunately. When I went to look at the 5227 recently, the AD decided to show me A. Lange & Söhne Saxonia models too, which is now messing with my head.

Good luck with your decision. In any case, they're both so beautiful you will probably not be able to go wrong with either.

Apologies for the totally useless reply

[phdezra]

Originally Posted by LDesp

the AD decided to show me A. Lange & Söhne Saxonia models too, which is now messing with my head.

Oh man, yeah!! Big time. Off topic from Patek Philippe, but the A. Lane & Söhne watches are stunningly beautiful as well. Which one did you look at? Saxonia Moonphase? Thin? Small seconds?

I have seen the small seconds with blue dial and white gold -- wow.

Even the others in a "silver" dial are breath-taking. I think the Saxonias are cheaper by $5k for "Near-Mint" pre-owned than this PP though, but are you looking at BNIB from AD? That would jack it up.

Yet the simplicity and elegance of the Patek Philippe 5227R and the dust cover, wonderful.

[LDesp]

Originally Posted by phdezra

Oh man, yeah!! Big time. Off topic from Patek Philippe, but the A. Lane & Söhne watches are stunningly beautiful as well. Which one did you look at? Saxonia Moonphase? Thin? Small seconds?

I have seen the small seconds with blue dial and white gold -- wow.

Even the others in a "silver" dial are breath-taking. I think the Saxonias are cheaper by $5k for "Near-Mint" pre-owned than this PP though, but are you looking at BNIB from AD? That would jack it up.

Yet the simplicity and elegance of the Patek Philippe 5227R and the dust cover, wonderful.

Tell me about it!

I looked at the Saxonia Thin (37 mm, ref. 201.033) and the Saxonia Automatic (with small seconds, 38.5 mm, ref. 380.033). I had a clear preference for the Saxonia Thin.

Indeed, they are much cheaper than 'equivalent' Patek Philippe watches (although there is no direct comparison) which complicates matters. Indeed I'm looking to make the purchase from an AD (unless I would end up deciding on a discontinued model, obviously).

I think the 'ultimate' dress watch for me would be a manually wound watch with no date and no crown guards, with an open caseback (the 'Hunter' caseback on the 5227R is a lovely extra). A small seconds hand would be a plus.

Basically, from the Patek Philippe range the 5196R would be perfect however I don't like the fact that there is no open caseback and that the movement is quite small for the case.

The Saxonia Thin seems to be the obvious choice given these 'requirements', but I'm planning to buy only one watch of this type and I just love those indices on the 5196 (and 5296) too much!

Oh man, I'm a disaster

[phdezra]

Originally Posted by LDesp

The Saxonia Thin seems to be the obvious choice given these 'requirements', but I'm planning to buy only one watch of this type and I just love those indices on the 5196 (and 5296) too much!

I was just looking at a PP 5196G-010, in 18kt white gold, silver dial. Lovely watch, but I strongly prefer rose gold on the classic looking simple watch.

I just need to convince myself that $25k for the PP is worth it. Oddly, never had such thoughts about a Rolex that costs same or more (eg, Sky-dweller) because those watches have such complications. The simplicity and elegance of the PP is breathtaking. Perhaps if they added the logo (I know that would screw with aesthetics) I might convince myself oddly, though not a complication.

[LDesp]

Originally Posted by phdezra

I was just looking at a PP 5196G-010, in 18kt white gold, silver dial. Lovely watch, but I strongly prefer rose gold on the classic looking simple watch.

I just need to convince myself that $25k for the PP is worth it. Oddly, never had such thoughts about a Rolex that costs same or more (eg, Sky-dweller) because those watches have such complications. The simplicity and elegance of the PP is breathtaking. Perhaps if they added the logo (I know that would screw with aesthetics) I might convince myself oddly, though not a complication.

You're right about rose gold and I agree. Again, I don't really think you can go wrong with this one.

Looking forward to seeing the wrist shots!

[Silver Bullet]

The 5227r is sublime and much more watch at the same price. There just is no comparison in the cases of these two watches, plus you get to see (and hear!) the 324, which is a much more interesting movement than the teeny invisible 215.

Try them both on. The 5196 is very flat and doesn’t sit comfortably on some wrists, like mine. The 5227 was a much better fit.

You should only consider the 5196 if it sits comfortably on your wrist and is $10k cheaper.

[jefe1999]

Originally Posted by Silver Bullet

The 5227r is sublime and much more watch at the same price. There just is no comparison in the cases of these two watches, plus you get to see (and hear!) the 324, which is a much more interesting movement than the teeny invisible 215.

Try them both on. The 5196 is very flat and doesn’t sit comfortably on some wrists, like mine. The 5227 was a much better fit.

You should only consider the 5196 if it sits comfortably on your wrist and is $10k cheaper.

Sublime is the right word for the 5227. Let's look at the dial in addition to the case. Faceted white gold dots at each second, which shimmer in the light. Both the case and dial are fabulous.

[cascavel]

The 5227 is a superb 3 hand watch which sells, in the secondary market, at a reasonable discount to MSRP. It is a perfect match for dress or casual and the hunter cover is a work of art. The 5127 or the 5107 is my favorite modern Calatrava because of the classic size and the ultra cool crown guards and simple, yet beautiful, bezel.
For Lange, I think the 1815 is a better comparison piece vs. the 5227 but I prefer a center second hand to a subdial second hand.

[Flex368]

Originally Posted by Silver Bullet

The 5227r is sublime and much more watch at the same price. There just is no comparison in the cases of these two watches, plus you get to see (and hear!) the 324, which is a much more interesting movement than the teeny invisible 215.

He is referring to a 5296R and they both share the movement 324 SC.

[Silver Bullet]

Originally Posted by Flex368

He is referring to a 5296R and they both share the movement 324 SC.

Thanks. I don’t know how I missed that!

[Flex368]

But you were right that the 5227R is the way to go.

[2nastie]

The 5296R has a sector dial version as well which adds a different element to the watch if that's something you want to consider.

I would personally have a harder time deciding between the caseback. While its interesting with the officer caseback, it's not really necessary. It's more of a novelty that I would like one day and dislike another. To those who own one... does it really act like a dust cover. It seems likely that dust actually collects in it from opening and closing.

Can Patek just revise the 5196 with a display back and/or wishful thinking a new larger movement that actually justifies showing off the movement?

[jeffnar]

I went through the same dilemma and eventually went with the 5107R. I saw the 5227 in person and did not like it. Too much real estate on the dial. I loved the 5296 but could not justify the 6k price premium over the 5107 and 5127. You really cannot go wrong with any of them. Just make sure whatever you buy you buy it with the full set.

[alphadweller]

5127 would be my pick, sexy crown guards and Geneva Seal (on early models), I know the PP seal goes further but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

The 5227 has a stunning case profile with scalopped lugs, but I don't like the hinge. I don't understand how Patek couldn't hide it on the inner side of the caseback, when Longines could in my 2015 affordable pocket watch.

The 5296 is more classic and conservative, didn't blow me away when I tried it on but could be an option at the right price, not at 25k.

Attaching a photo of the hinge in the 5227.5227_hinge.jpg

[Ahhuat]

5296r.
Class

[jd57]

I think the two pieces wear about the same size - the concave bezel on the 5227 results in the dial being a bit smaller for the case size. Side by side I thought the 5296 looked slightly bigger as a result.

On the subject of Lange, I would agree that the Saxonia (Auto gets my vote for the small seconds) or even more an 1815 (either the regular or the up-down) would be superior to either of the Pateks. The blued hands on the 1815 never get old.

[RUpanerai]

I highly prefer the classic shape of the 5296....

[Silver Bullet]

It’s a matter is taste but I find Langes simpler watches supremely boring. They all seem to have the same uninspired case. The dials are so plain.

Nice movements, but all around, Calatravas are much more exciting, and they pull that off without being gaudy and over styled. That’s not an easy thing to do.