Why are so many watches without papers?

[gleiden]

What's your theory on why so many watches are either 'box no papers' or 'watch only'? Especially the former.

I don't get how hard it is, if you are keeping the Rolex box, to retain the papers in the flap designated for them.

Is it because people don't want you to see their name on the papers and you are getting that card with it on it?

Are they selling them separately? (This reduces what they can fetch with the watch, plus, I don't see a lot of warranty cards for sale).

Why?

(did a search, couldn't find the right combo of keywords to turn up a thread that already discussed it)

[EDIT]. I can more understand 'watch only' where someone just couldn't be bothered to keep the packaging and just tossed it. Maybe not a collector, just a regular watch-wearing consumer, they don't need a big green box hanging around in the closet. Also, I can understand it for more vintage older watches - passage of time, moving house, blah blah.. But for modern watches? Why no papers?

[joli160]

Many people are not interested in keeping packaging materials and leave them at the dealers at time of purchase or dump them in the trash.

[Black_5]

Because the majority of owners are buying a watch, not a box and papers and throw them out...

SOoO many watches, SOoO little time...

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by Black_5

Because the majority of owners are buying a watch, not a box and papers and throw them out...

SOoO many watches, SOoO little time...

Surely they'd want to keep the warranty card?

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by Black_5

Because the majority of owners are buying a watch, not a box and papers and throw them out...

SOoO many watches, SOoO little time...

They wouldn't want the guarantee papers? What would make more sense is 'papers no box' :D

[Ricky Rolex]

Always thought the same myself.

Tbh I’d be reluctant to buy without papers myself although I’d happily buy without papers if the watch has been serviced by Rolex and an official dated service card can be supplied.

I actually think these are a better option as it shows authenticity and that the watch has been serviced / cared for.


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[bp1000]

Not once it’s expired

To a collector yes but if you buy a watch and it’s like a TV to you. Once the warranty expires you just throw out the box and warranty card. To your knowledge it has no value to you so why keep it.

[DougFNJ]

So when it is explained anywhere it can be explained to keep the card because you will need it if you need warranty work on your 5 figure watch, the first thought to so many is, let me keep the box but toss the card I was told to keep?

I would not pay a 50-80% premium for a watch that didn’t include that card. If they are THAT irresponsible with a card, how were they with the watch??


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[gleiden]

Originally Posted by bp1000

Not once it’s expired

To a collector yes but if you buy a watch and it’s like a TV to you. Once the warranty expires you just throw out the box and warranty card. To your knowledge it has no value to you so why keep it.

That is a good point - once it's expired; unless you are a collector, why keep it? But then, that would mean intentionally opening the box (unless you kept in some other filing place) and taking and throwing it away.

But I do think this is one very valid reason, but I don't think it fully explains the number that are 'no papers'.

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by Ricky Rolex

Always thought the same myself.

Tbh I’d be reluctant to buy without papers myself although I’d happily buy without papers if the watch has been serviced by Rolex and an official dated service card can be supplied.

I actually think these are a better option as it shows authenticity and that the watch has been serviced / cared for.


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Right - original papers is #1 in my book, with RSC service chit would be 'ok'.

[Frank McKay]

What exactly does “with papers” mean?

Boutique paper receipt + warranty card? Is that correct?

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

What exactly does “with papers” mean?

Boutique paper receipt + warranty card? Is that correct?

usually it means warranty card - some might also consider the manuals and other bits of paper - calendars and such as well.

If you get the original sales receipt that's more desirable to some, but not expected.

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by DougFNJ

So when it is explained anywhere it can be explained to keep the card because you will need it if you need warranty work on your 5 figure watch, the first thought to so many is, let me keep the box but toss the card I was told to keep?

I would not pay a 50-80% premium for a watch that didn’t include that card. If they are THAT irresponsible with a card, how were they with the watch??


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Lol.. Agreed

[vassosent]

Stolen watches ....like my panerai 590. No box no papers . I was robbed and i am sure the pam was selled after as a no box no papers

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[gleiden]

Originally Posted by vassosent

Stolen watches ....like my panerai 590. No box no papers . I was robbed and i am sure the pam was selled after as a no box no papers

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Stolen would definitely account for some 'watch only, no box no papers' watches, yes (but not 'with box, no papers' :) )

[-Skyfall-]

Would never buy a watch with no box or papers.

[horseShu]

Originally Posted by Ricky Rolex

Always thought the same myself.

Tbh I’d be reluctant to buy without papers myself although I’d happily buy without papers if the watch has been serviced by Rolex and an official dated service card can be supplied.

I actually think these are a better option as it shows authenticity and that the watch has been serviced / cared for.


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Personally I value the RSC paper more than 'box and papers'. Especially if the service date is fairly recent. It shows that the watch is in good condition.

Papers are nothing more than an excuse for sellers to ask for a higher price.

[RayRay89]

There’s a lot of people out there that toss the box and manuals. There’s a lot of people who buys watches not for collector purposes but to “flex” or for a watch to tell time. You don’t keep the box for your iPhone?

[Yzord]

Originally Posted by -Skyfall-

Would never buy a watch with no box or papers.

This

[cascavel]

1)Buyers toss the box and paperwork if they buy a watch in another country and don't want to mess with customs, duty etc.
2)Non-collector buyers don't understand what the paperwork means and don't think they'll need to make use of the warranty.
3)Estate cleanups; when you're dead your heirs understand the value of a watch, but the box and an expired warranty? No.
4)Spousal divorce revenge. Your future ex decides to clean out your trash to make your move out easier and tosses those useless, empty boxes at the top of your closet which have been sitting there "forever". This actually happened to a friend of mine who had a low seven figures watch collection of Rolex, Patek, Audemars, Lange etc.
There are more reasons, use your imagination.

[Black_5]

Originally Posted by gleiden

Surely they'd want to keep the warranty card?

Do they even need it if the warranty is tracked by serial # anyway?

SOoO many watches, SOoO little time...

[Black_5]

Originally Posted by gleiden

They wouldn't want the guarantee papers? What would make more sense is 'papers no box' :D

Once the warranty has expired, unless you are a collector, it's just extra stuff...

SOoO many watches, SOoO little time...

[Daveh777]

Very good question. I cannot accept that they are thrown away by folk that don’t care. It’s more about hiding traceability and history 100%.
In a similar vein, I once bought an Omega Seamaster with so-called “Open Papers” with original warranty card, box etc and no dealer stamp - obviously grey market but at the time I was naive and was happy to get everything.
I know appreciate the place of provenance a lot better, just like when you buy a car or bike you want to see the service history etc.

[gleiden]

On the local selling platform where I am (Singapore) doing a search for 'Daytona Zenith' of the first 12 results I got back there were:

1 Box and cert
2 Box only
5 Box and RSC service chit
4 Watch only

On Chrono24, there were 300 results for Daytona Zenith, of those, 167 had papers. In other words, just under half had somehow lost the papers along the way. Now, that's careless. :)

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by Daveh777

Very good question. I cannot accept that they are thrown away by folk that don’t care. It’s more about hiding traceability and history 100%.

I didn't want to 'lead the witness' too much in my question, but i think there's an element of this at work.

I'm trying to understand the reason behind it (notwithstanding explainable and rational attrition as given by some others such as house moving, people throwing them away because they don't want extra stuff hanging around etc).

Maybe it is just those things and I'm just overthinking it.

I wonder what TinTin would do...

[gleiden]

Originally Posted by cascavel

1)Buyers toss the box and paperwork if they buy a watch in another country and don't want to mess with customs, duty etc.

Yes, but doesn't explain 'box but no papers'

Originally Posted by cascavel

2)Non-collector buyers don't understand what the paperwork means and don't think they'll need to make use of the warranty

This could be a legit one, yes.

Originally Posted by cascavel

3)Estate cleanups; when you're dead your heirs understand the value of a watch, but the box and an expired warranty? No.

Yes, maybe, but again, wouldn't explain 'box but no papers'

Originally Posted by cascavel

4)Spousal divorce revenge. Your future ex decides to clean out your trash to make your move out easier and tosses those useless, empty boxes at the top of your closet which have been sitting there "forever". This actually happened to a friend of mine who had a low seven figures watch collection of Rolex, Patek, Audemars, Lange etc.

This one made me LOL :). (well, obviously not funny for your mate, but if this was the reason between 20-40% of pre-owned Rolexes appearing for sale without the warranty card that would be hilarious)

[ROLEX*]

Possible criminal cases e.g Stolen, Robbery, Corruption Gifts and Hospitality...
Other plausible reasons are Missing in Transition, House Moving, Destroyed by Natural Disaster, Mites, Pawn Shop Items, Hiding The Names (you name it)

P/S: Boxes are for sale widely but paper is unique to the watch.

[e dantes]

I think some of those sold with a box, might not have the original box. Resellers likely have several extra boxes on hand and pair them with some of the watches they buy without boxes.

Personally, I went with one without original warranty papers but with recent Rolex service warranty.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by cascavel

1)Buyers toss the box and paperwork if they buy a watch in another country and don't want to mess with customs, duty etc.
2)Non-collector buyers don't understand what the paperwork means and don't think they'll need to make use of the warranty.
3)Estate cleanups; when you're dead your heirs understand the value of a watch, but the box and an expired warranty? No.
4)Spousal divorce revenge. Your future ex decides to clean out your trash to make your move out easier and tosses those useless, empty boxes at the top of your closet which have been sitting there "forever". This actually happened to a friend of mine who had a low seven figures watch collection of Rolex, Patek, Audemars, Lange etc.
There are more reasons, use your imagination.

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[gleiden]

Originally Posted by e dantes

I think some of those sold with a box, might not have the original box. Resellers likely have several extra boxes on hand and pair them with some of the watches they buy without boxes.
.

Ah yes! I think this is a very good one which I never thought of.