ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
14 August 2017, 12:21 AM | #61 |
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I definitely agree that some sellers (trusted of otherwise) WAY over-grade their watches. It's also simply dishonest when they leaving out pertinent information/photos. My first transaction on TRF didn't go as well as it should have. The seller left out a photo of the case back which ended up having some light (but easily visible) scuffs on it. There was also a very, very slight but undisclosed ding but in all fairness, I'm not sure the seller knew it was there as you could only see it with direct lighting and you'd have to be moving the watch at an odd angle for the light to catch it. I ended up working out "middle of the road" solution with the seller but I don't think I'd do another deal with that seller. Luckily, my transaction here since then have been stellar (granted, the majority were FTF which eliminates a LOT of pitfalls)
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14 August 2017, 12:28 AM | #62 | |
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Quote:
From the sale forum sticky https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=9423 Upon completion of a transaction, the seller or buyer should post a message to that effect. |
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14 August 2017, 12:30 AM | #63 |
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In this listing there was good photos. There may have been a point to this thread had there been no photos and the buyer was relying solely on the seller's description of the watch. All the folks who posted saw the true condition of the watch from the photos given. Nothing was hidden even the bent this or that. Were the photos misleading in any way? If a seller gives good photos of the entire watch, the cosmetic condition is objectively known. How one chooses to characterize the condition is open to interpretation.
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14 August 2017, 12:39 AM | #64 |
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The pictures tell the story. Buyer beware.
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14 August 2017, 01:08 AM | #65 |
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Yes, might be. The factory serti's came out around 1990, I think? So there are "T<25" serti dials for sure but not appropriate for the early 2000's. While not a crime to convert your black or root beer 16713 to a serti using an earlier dial, it is another grey area with disclosure in this ad, assuming the seller even realizes. Some trusted sellers are not as watch savvy as one might think, combined with the fact that they handle dozens of watches for sale, often for only the briefest periods of time. Honest mistakes or oversights can be made.
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14 August 2017, 02:13 AM | #66 | |
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Quote:
Totally agree. Unless the watch is listed as - and clearly is - BNIB, with stickers still applied, the watch should be considered worn. A worn watch will show some degree of use. Thus, a description of mint, near mint, excellent or very good condition should taken in conjunction with the posted pictures. How a seller chooses to describe the watch is subjective, but the pictures are objective in the state of condition. This is basic common sense. |
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14 August 2017, 02:43 AM | #67 | |
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Quote:
It doesn't help anyone. Why would you buy a second and then third watch from someone you claim manipulated pictures and sent watches in worse condition than advertised?
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14 August 2017, 03:28 AM | #68 | |
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Quote:
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14 August 2017, 04:28 AM | #69 | |
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Quote:
Separate listings. Sometimes a seller will use a shill account to list the same watch a second time. Different user names, exact same watch. Pathetic and dishonest.
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14 August 2017, 06:10 AM | #70 | ||
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Quote:
As to backing it up, I can back it up, but I don't see if it's in my place to do so, as it may ruin someone's reputation. Although it'll probably be the last time I'll be doing deals with this seller, I do owe him the respect too as he was very accommodating throughout those 3 deals. Being a business owner myself, I'd like to be a gentleman in these things and just walk away to another seller. Quote:
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14 August 2017, 08:04 AM | #71 | |
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Quote:
SO if you have a case, you're doing the right thing by posting the details. You don't need anyone's permission to do this. But if you say something and can't back it up, there will be consequences! Hopefully that helps. |
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14 August 2017, 12:28 PM | #72 |
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the whole polish/ un polish banter is absolutely silly.. OP is correct, there are sellers that list and say "never polished" and clearly the watch has been.. and some of the those sellers dont know the difference between a polished watch and an unpolished one.
No one knows everything, watch forums and google create instant experts.. none of us are perfect and none of us know everything. Buy your seller before you buy your watch.... ask questions and ask for pics if you doubt something. The vast majority of regular sellers will do the right thing and make a deal right. However if you buying from new seller or piece thats some amazing deal then you are taking a risk. Bottom line if you want perfect, little to no chance of issues and recourse (return/chargeback), buy new at an AD.. you dont get much of deal but sometimes you cant put a price on piece of mind. |
14 August 2017, 02:16 PM | #73 | |
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Quote:
Im glad you responded as you are one of the good sellers reputation IMO. One of the reasons I started the thread was that the seller said "might of been polished". Im like clearly it was deceiving to me as the lugs are round, spring bar holes are distorted by the looks and then other issues poped up and I thought this to be a learning experience, but other members defended the seller or I had blow back from them for showing the watch listing outing the seller. I was trying to ask honest questions hoping someone with more knowledge would chime in and some did. Again, I never made an offer but was thinking about the wording didn't really correspond with pictures. I didn't see the bent 24 hour hand but did notice the clasp crown polish almost off but listed as good condition but forgot to mention it. Another warning sign. Someone put up a condition guide on a earlier post in this thread which is just that, a guide but it helped. I doubt the seller even knows this thread is here unless they were emailed or PM and I hope they rewrite the listing and fix issues. I've had this reference and it was mint although light polish when I bought it.. here's my watch and it had service papers it was a stunning watch Anyway if it saved someone from an aggravating purchase all the better. I wonder what would've happened if another person bought it and 2 weeks later noticed the bent hand ? You think the seller would make it right ? I don't know as a buyer of it I would've went ballastic. Because someone knew the hand was bent, photographer or seller knew. Haters gonna hate... just pass next time instead of correcting an injustice... god forbid it happens to some of you EDIT: one other point is all my P serial numbered Rolex had Swiss Made at 6. Now was there a carry over from what that one has. I'm not sure. Maybe a service dial ? Switch out, transition dial ? Ok I'm done with this
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14 August 2017, 09:46 PM | #74 | |
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Quote:
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15 August 2017, 02:33 AM | #75 |
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Here's an example of the same watch being listed twice. Notice that the seller name is similar but formatted differently so it appears to the algorithms that parse such listings as different sellers.
1. https://omegaforums.net/threads/pre-...-01-001.61845/ 2. http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php...o=856405&rid=0
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16 August 2017, 05:28 AM | #76 | |
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Quote:
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16 August 2017, 05:30 AM | #77 |
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16 August 2017, 05:59 AM | #78 | |
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Quote:
That's a bogus example I cited. Different forums, but they get aggregated by WatchRecon.
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17 August 2017, 06:34 AM | #79 |
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Too bad this thread was moved. It got a lot more presence.
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17 August 2017, 07:33 AM | #80 |
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I concur. It is definite in need of wider exposure and debate
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17 August 2017, 11:51 AM | #81 |
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Different platforms for the same item. That's how people do business. The more exposure an item has, the better chance it sells. Do you think people only advertise on TRF? If I sold on multiple platforms I'd list a watch today here, tomorrow elsewhere. This way I'd have a chance to bump it everyday and bring it to the top on both websites and Watchtrecon daily.
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17 August 2017, 12:05 PM | #82 | |
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Quote:
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17 August 2017, 08:27 PM | #83 |
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I've seen the same ad on the same forum, posted twice. One was recently put up and taken down quickly. My example was an unfortunate mistake by me.
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18 August 2017, 12:34 AM | #84 |
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If I may...
I am an occasional seller (and buyer) on this forum. I'm not a full-time dealer by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just an enthusiast who keeps a watch for typically two years and then flips it for something else. As a buyer, I want to know everything I can about the watch before I buy it. I assume that all buyers are like that. As a seller, I want my buyers to be happy and satisfied with the purchase. So I take the best pictures that I possibly can, sweating the lighting and focus so that there are no issues, questions or doubts about any damage or lack of damage. And then I carefully list all of the defects that I am aware of. That's a lot of work, and I probably lose a lot of potential buyers with my obsession to disclose everything. But that's me. I just received an email from the guy who bought my latest, and he said: " I am very happy, condition was better than described!" That makes me very happy. Sure, I may have missed out on a couple of hundred bucks, but that's nothing compared to how I'd feel if he'd written and expressed disappointment with my honesty. Without my integrity, I have nothing. I've seen ads and pictures from high volume sellers here, and I'm sure that they are stand-up guys, but I concur that some of these leave a lot to be desired. And I think that DavidSW is a great guy; I've dealt with him on numerous occasions; he takes great pictures and describes the item accurately. But I also know that he has many of his used watches polished before he sells them. And you may complain that he doesn't disclose this, but he never claims that they are not polished. You need to infer that, I guess. So yes, it's buyer beware. And it's challenging when really all you've got to go on is pictures. My rule is simple, if you have any doubt, any question at all, then just pass on it and wait for another watch.
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19 August 2017, 05:48 AM | #85 |
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This thread got moved so that it did indeed get less exposure, even though there's threads that get left on the Rolex discussion part of the forum that don't really belong there. Bottom line is this - if you're buying a used, non mint, watch then check the pics, ask your questions etc. The TS (or any seller) are only giving the information in the sales thread that they want to provide - some give all the info they can (Patrick/Thanh etc), some others prefer/choose not to.
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