Buying GMT becoming a nightmare....

[orthopa]

Long story short my wife bought me a sub for my birthday with a non original red "aftermarket" face and dial. It was a good gesture but I just didnt feel comfortable with the non rolex components. Not to mention the bracelet links were extremely stretched and the watch was 25 year old. The watch came without any documentation other then a new box and an "apppraisal" for $9250. The website we bought the watch from was www.timeandgems.com We returned the watch were told a full refund would not be given as their website clearly states that there was a 20% ($1000.00) restocking fee. We begrudingly agreed and wished to trade the watch for another which was another option listed on their website.....

For the full previous thread please read here http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=151645

Now since we have been discussing the "trade" with a manager, here is what has transpired....

Time and Gems recieved our returned watch on 11/15 and I requested a pre owned GMT ii black faced watch in SS by phone and never heard back. I also emailed them and did then get a response on 11/16.

On 11/16 I was given a quote for $6600 for a "pre owned M watch complete with box and warranty card".

I then emailed them back on 11/16 saying their price quote was higher then others I had seen on the internet and even their own website which listed the watch at $6405. I then emailed them ebay links, links from this forum, and links from other internet stores with a price of $5950 such as this one below. Their website SPECIFICALLY states they will match any competitors price.

http://www.watchchest.com/index.php?...mart&Itemid=11

On the 17th the price for this watch on their website changed from $6405 to $7046. I had their prices written down and in a text from wife so I was aware of them as I was shopping around. I found this rather coindicental. I called the store and recieved no answer. I then called a couple hours later and asked to talk to the owner. The rep said he wasnt avail but would call me back. I recieved no phone call back.

On the 17th I recieved an email which said the manager would discuss this with the owner when he came in at 12 noon and get back to me....I never heard back.

On the 18th I called, left a message and then emailed them again asking about the status. They promised to talk to the owner and get back to me on the 19th.

On the 19th I again recieved no email, no phone call. At 6:11 pm (they close at 6) I emailed them again requesting an update as I wanted to agree on the price and buy the watch.

20 mintues later on the 19th I recieve this email...

Is the item from watch chest complete with box & warranty card? Is it used? The one we would be getting is a unworn showroom model.

WTF? What is it Im getting here? Am I getting an unworn showroom model "M series" that has been unworn since 2006-2007 : or the "pre owned one we were talking about for a price match?

I then emailed them requesting a quick concrete response as to what it is exactly that they have for sale as well as pictures. If not I will contact my local BBB as well as my credit card company to dispute the original charges. I will also contact the local authorities to explore any fraud avenues.

Here is their BBB online "file"

http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Repor...Gems-100089392

We are talking about a $6000.00 watch here while they sit on my orignal $5000.00 payment. I have to admit I am quite frustrated. Not to mention out of every 10 phone calls that are placed only 1-2 are answered and YOU NEVER get a phone call back.

Am I off the mark here? Any advice? Does this sound fishy to anyone else?

[Gerardus]

Go to a lawyer or with some friends ( ) over-there.

[Art 1]

Man, that's too bad.

[Jason71]

Get your $5,000 back from them and take them to small claims court for the other $1,000. Go from the angle of the fact that the watch was 25 years old and that they breached contract when they sold you the watch originally. I am sure that you did not sign-up for a 25 year old watch.

I would be totally pissed and there is no way that I would want a watch from them now.

[Speed]

Expensive lesson.

Don't buy from these over-priced faceless sites. Buy from dealers who are known by name and personal reputation.

I have a friend who keeps looking at sites like these vs. Buying on TRF. He equates having a web store with reliability.

What horrible prices.

[autofiend]

Originally Posted by Speed

Expensive lesson.

Don't buy from these over-priced faceless sites. Buy from dealers who are known by name and personal reputation.

I have a friend who keeps looking at sites like these vs. Buying on TRF. He equates having a web store with reliability.

What horrible prices.

+1

Get your money back and buy the watch from a trusted TRF seller--you will be much happier.

[PJS500]

If it was a credit card charge you may be in luck if they did not follow their return policy as far as giving credit. Call the credit card company today. There is a time limit on challenging the charge and they may be stalling until the time passes. You can call or do it online. Sorry for your trouble..

[snog]

call your c/c company today and start a refund,I would not want the watch from them now,just get your money back.

[Newportkrieger]

Another option, get the original watch back and buy a replacement dial and have it installed.

[snog]

Originally Posted by Newportkrieger

Another option, get the original watch back and buy a replacement dial and have it installed.

he could even send it to Rolex to do,a full service and the new dial would still be less than the restocking fee.

[BuffaloRolex]

Eesh. That's horrible! I hope that you will be made whole...

[Ken Cox]

I don't know New York laws, but here in Oregon, for a case involving $5000 or less, I could take this to Small Claims Court.

Time and Gems would have to show up for Small Claims Court: no lawyers allowed.

I would get a judgment against Time and Gems and take the judgment to my County Sheriff and ask him to contact the County Sheriff in the county in which Time and Gems does business.

So far, this would not get me my money back.

Then I would call the BBB and the Chamber of Commerce in Time and Gems' locale and file my judgment with them.

Then I would call or write Time and Gems and tell them what I had done so far and that I had begun the process of creating a Search Engine Optimized web site that would appear next to their site on any Google search, and that I would post my judgment against them on that site (cost less than $1000, satisfaction priceless).

I would tell Time and Gems that I would refrain from creating the website in return for all of my money, including restocking fee and Small Claims Court costs, plus ten percent for my troubles.

This has worked for me in the past.

In fact, I only had to explain to my "Time and Gems" what I planned to do, and I had a check by Fed Ex the next day.

[thomas311]

orthoPA,

im sorry to hear about your troubles with your GMT. but stay resilient and persisent. dont let this company off the hook. continue the pressure and you will have what you want.

Ken Cox,

excellent advice and great plan. im tired of these companies with too much time on their hands taking money from tax paying citizens and thinking they can get away with it.

how can they think this is a way to run a company? or lack thereof...

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by snog

he could even send it to Rolex to do,a full service and the new dial would still be less than the restocking fee.

Thats what i was thinking. Do we know what model it was? At 25 years old the watch was made in 1985, probably came with a matte dial and could potentally be quite nice once redialed to its original spec and serviced by Rolex.

Plus, if you reject any other watch deals, the must return the same watch to you. If they cant return the same watch, their claim to a restocking fee may well be gone.

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by thomas311

orthoPA,

im sorry to hear about your troubles with your GMT. but stay resilient and persisent. dont let this company off the hook. continue the pressure and you will have what you want.

Ken Cox,

excellent advice and great plan. im tired of these companies with too much time on their hands taking money from tax paying citizens and thinking they can get away with it.

how can they think this is a way to run a company? or lack thereof...

Used watch dealers are like used car lots... buyer beware! I do not see what being a taxpayor or not has to do with anything. All one can do is pursue legal remedies and publicize the event so others have the opportunity to not patronize the business.

[snog]

Originally Posted by Ken Cox

I had begun the process of creating a Search Engine Optimized web site that would appear next to their site on any Google search, and that I would post my judgment against them on that site (cost less than $1000, satisfaction priceless).

and it works too,I was about to buy from an online site but it had a review of bad service from them next to their site so a never went ahead with the purchase.

[StarSovereign]

Call them up and explain you no longer want to do a trade and simply want your money back, less the restocking fee of course as your wife, whether she recognized it or not, entered into a contract when we bought the watch that stated all returns will be assessed a 20% restocking fee. Calk the $1000 up to an expense lesson and move on. Are they jerking you around a bit? Sure. But then again they're probably a bit pissed off your wife made a purchase without doing her diligence, which is beyond comprehension for someone buying a $5000 watch....

[Newportkrieger]

You should post y our experience in the Whos Who forum here. Make sure the everyone on TRF knows exactly what these people are like to do business with. Additionally, there are a number of other forums what would appreciate a heads up about this transaction as well.

Im my opinion the only leverage is action that hits a businessman in the wallet!

[Watch Professor]

Post your experience on Watchnet.com. Contact your credit card company immediately and file a dispute. Do it by phone and in writing.

[p_mcgee]

I was on that site a few days ago & noticed an impossibly low-priced GMT2c with a red (instead of green) 24 hour hand. I just re-visited & its now gone.

[Shade]

Call your credit card company and report it as fraud. Locally visit them if possible and ask for their responsibility..

[gregmoeck]

at this point any watch you get from them will remind you of this nightmare, I would try and get as much money back as possible. If it comes down to it report them to the credit card company, report to local authorities and even report to Rolex NYC. Be polite but tell the this company that you will have no options other than reporting them if they can not come to some type of agreement. Try meeting them halfway, give them 500 if they return all moneys, at least they made 500 from you and you will remain quiet. We all can start sending emails to them if you would like us to do that.

[Speed]

The action with the credit card company is called a "chargeback"

If you present a compelling case to the issuing credit card company, they will charge back the purchase and the merchant will get the funds taken out of their account.

[gregmoeck]

I just read your original thread again. As hard as it may be, I would take the 1000 loss, anything you get from them will be suspect and probably end up costing you too much. you can get any watch you want from one of our trusted sellers on this forum.

[gregmoeck]

agree, with that speed, and companies are only allowed so many chargebacks before their merchant account will raise their rates.

[snog]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

agree, with that speed, and companies are only allowed so many chargebacks before their merchant account will raise their rates.

and I think they get charged a fee for the privilege

[cid]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

I just read your original thread again. As hard as it may be, I would take the 1000 loss, anything you get from them will be suspect and probably end up costing you too much. you can get any watch you want from one of our trusted sellers on this forum.

I agree. I know it's been a bad experience and has left you frustrated but you might be better off just leaving the $1,000 and chalking this up as a learning experience. It could end up costing you more than $1,000 in the long run and then you have to ask yourself what's your time and happiness worth.

BTW, I wouldn't waste your time with the BBB. In my experience the BBB has too many hands to sit on, if you know what I mean. While I think they stand for the right thing, it doesn't seem like businesses give the BBB the same regard they once did. I've found that online reviews are pretty effective. Find an online rating service that this company uses and write a review of your experience. Just make sure to be honest (not that you're dishonest, but keep your facts well grounded).

I understand if you may be dubious about online merchants, but I've been dealing with Bernard Watch for a long time and I know a number of people who have purchased from him. He's completely legitimate and does not jerk his clients around. Might be worth a look: www.bernardwatch.com


Good luck!

[orthopa]

First off thank alot for the support and the advice. I did get a call back from the manager and since they cannot match the price they are going to refund our payment in full!!!! Thank god. I cant express how relieved I am. He is going to put the refund through and should show up on our statement in the next 24-48 hours.

Again thanks for the advice. Im glad it ended this easily.

Now any advice on where to get a nice Pre Owned GMT ii ceramic???

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by orthopa

First off thank alot for the support and the advice. I did get a call back from the manager and since they cannot match the price they are going to refund our payment in full!!!! Thank god. I cant express how relieved I am. He is going to put the refund through and should show up on our statement in the next 24-48 hours.

Again thanks for the advice. Im glad it ended this easily.

Now any advice on where to get a nice Pre Owned GMT ii ceramic???

Look right here in the classifieds. Also check timezone.com and watchnet.com

[StarSovereign]

Originally Posted by orthopa

First off thank alot for the support and the advice. I did get a call back from the manager and since they cannot match the price they are going to refund our payment in full!!!! Thank god. I cant express how relieved I am. He is going to put the refund through and should show up on our statement in the next 24-48 hours.

Again thanks for the advice. Im glad it ended this easily.

Now any advice on where to get a nice Pre Owned GMT ii ceramic???

Right here. Right now it's Rolex's most popular watch, so finding one pre-loved shouldn't be a problem whatsoever. Contact DavidSW. I've sold to and bought from him over the last year...can't beat him on price or service...