Help with first Patek

[Alford78]

I'm in the process of deciding which model I should purchase as my first PP so thought I'd ask you all some questions.

My current collection is very small as I didn't buy my second nice watch (Omega GSOTM) and get hooked until last year. I have a Rolex 16610 Sub, Omega GSOTM, and a Rolex 5330 (which was a mistake. It's too small but pretty).

My wrist is 7-1/3" to just shy of 7.5" when fully swollen. I like all precious metals and even SS so that isn't really an issue. I don't travel often enough to justify having a GMT function this early in my collection either unless a heck of a deal pops up. So, it basically boils down to either a Calatrava or a 5167/1a and I'm really leaning towards the latter. I rarely wear a suit but do dress more towards business casual most of the time. Nice slacks, handmade shoes, and a button down shirt is pretty normal just rarely wear a jacket. So, even a Calatrava would need to be more of a daily wearer type watch which I think most can certainly be!

With my wrist size a 38mm case would be the smallest I'd consider after rarely wearing my Rolex 5330 (35.5mm). My grail watch is a 5711 white dial but just can't justify that price right now so it's very possible which ever watch I end up with could be traded towards one so I'm trying to keep that in mind as well. But, I could totally fall in love with my purchase and just make saving for a 5711 take a little longer than I'd like.

So, other than what I'm drawn to or what speaks to me I'm asking for some opinions based on my collection and dress/needs. My budget is around $18,000-$19,000 max.

Thanks for your time and hopefully some good suggestions!
-Al

Edit. I've really been eyeing this JLC for the past 6 months and it would compete against a Calatrava obviously so just throwing that out there. Something about it just speaks to me with the blue sweeper hand.

[IMG][/IMG]

[AK797]

As well as PP I would look at Moser, some beautifully designed dress watches. I would look to buy used so if you decide to sell it for the Nautilus you won't lose much.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by AK797

As well as PP I would look at Moser, some beautifully designed dress watches. I would look to buy used so if you decide to sell it for the Nautilus you won't lose much.

Yes I love the new Pioneer model for sure!

[jon_jon]

If you like blue hands, you should also look into A Lange Sohne 1815.

For Calatravas 38mm or larger, you have a limited selection - 5227, 5296, 5153 and the recently discontinued 5123. I believe someone is selling the 5123R in the "for sale" section here if you want to take a look (I have no affiliation with the seller nor know the seller).

[KarlS]

5167 will have decent resale when you upgrade

[lapince]

Originally Posted by KarlS

5167 will have decent resale when you upgrade

Yes and ifnyou dress casual is the best of the 2

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

If you like blue hands, you should also look into A Lange Sohne 1815.

For Calatravas 38mm or larger, you have a limited selection - 5227, 5296, 5153 and the recently discontinued 5123. I believe someone is selling the 5123R in the "for sale" section here if you want to take a look (I have no affiliation with the seller nor know the seller).

Yes I do like the ALS as well but not as much as the Pateks or JLC. I'll check out the models you listed as I didn't know which ones fit the size needs.

Thanks for narrowing them down!

[Alford78]

Ok. So I see 5167s priced at around $16000-$18000 on the forums and eBay but I stumbled across a 5 year old model in 99% condition (only worn 8-10 times) for under $14000 that would need a new uncut strap. My question is, "what are the selling prices of these 5167s, not asking price but sell price? And I can't find a price on the rubber straps. What do they run? I really want a /1a with bracelet but if can save that much I could possibly just buy a bracelet sepearate. I saw a bracelet listed aprox $3400 if that's accurate?

And another question is regarding the dials of the older 5167s. Are they the exact same since they are the same model numbers or have they changed? The one I saw didn't seem to shine as much as the new dials but every photograph can be deceiving.

[nyc2la]

The white dial 5711 could be gotten at a discount, so if that's your grail as you stated, I would consider saving a bit longer to start your collection there, especially considering where you are with regards to the high end of your budget. It's a perfect watch for your needs listed above. My 2-cents. Good luck!

[el1125]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

The white dial 5711 could be gotten at a discount, so if that's your grail as you stated, I would consider saving a bit longer to start your collection there, especially considering where you are with regards to the high end of your budget. It's a perfect watch for your needs listed above. My 2-cents. Good luck!

I agree w Stephen..

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

The white dial 5711 could be gotten at a discount, so if that's your grail as you stated, I would consider saving a bit longer to start your collection there, especially considering where you are with regards to the high end of your budget. It's a perfect watch for your needs listed above. My 2-cents. Good luck!

Yea I know and tell myself that as well but honestly there is barely a difference between how much I like both watches. I know some people look at the 5167 as an entry level watch but to me I see it as a marvel. The 5711 is just barely more attractive to me so it's almost splitting hairs to say it's my grail when the 5167 is right there on the cusp of being my grail as well. If I get the 5167 and fall in love with it like I should then it may force me to just go after the 5711 on its own while keeping the 5167, if that makes sense. The list price on a blue 5711 unopened from the same seller with the sub $14000 5167 is $23000 so that is a better deal than I've seen too and that's for the blue dial not white. But still, that's another $9000 which my wife wouldn't particularly be happy with since I always buy her something nice when purchasing for myself. She doesn't expect it by any means and makes way way more money than I do but marriage is a two way street not to mention she deserves it more than I do.

But, if I were to spend $18000 on a /1a then what's another couple months saving to grab my most favorite watch there is which is reasonably attainable.

Oh. And I found the prices for tropical straps. Cheaper than I figured.

[GB-man]

The strap for the 5167a ran me about 200 a couple years back at tiffanys in NYC.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Ok. So I see 5167s priced at around $16000-$18000 on the forums and eBay but I stumbled across a 5 year old model in 99% condition (only worn 8-10 times) for under $14000 that would need a new uncut strap. My question is, "what are the selling prices of these 5167s, not asking price but sell price? And I can't find a price on the rubber straps. What do they run? I really want a /1a with bracelet but if can save that much I could possibly just buy a bracelet sepearate. I saw a bracelet listed aprox $3400 if that's accurate?

And another question is regarding the dials of the older 5167s. Are they the exact same since they are the same model numbers or have they changed? The one I saw didn't seem to shine as much as the new dials but every photograph can be deceiving.

I haven't seen too many sub 14k so I would be tempted.

[onehotchili]

I have a hunch I know which dealer you saw that sub 14k 5167... Look closely at the paperwork to see exactly what calibre is in that 5167. I believe some of the early models 315 SC vs 324 SC of the newer ones.

As for your choices... I recently went with a 5167 as my daily one and only watch. I love it. I thought about saving up more for a 5711, but for now I am content with what I have. Far down the road I'll get another Patek... Maybe a 5196p, but I'll wait till I start and sell my 2nd company to celebrate with that watch!

[jon_jon]

$14K USD for a 5 year old 5167A in mint condition is a good price. I don't know how easy it is to obtain the metal bracelet and if Patek sells them separately like they do with the rubber strap. It is a very inconspicuous watch that can be worn everywhere, without drawing any attention.

[Tay821]

14k? If you're not considering it I will.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

$14K USD for a 5 year old 5167A in mint condition is a good price. I don't know how easy it is to obtain the metal bracelet and if Patek sells them separately like they do with the rubber strap. It is a very inconspicuous watch that can be worn everywhere, without drawing any attention.

Not interchangeable

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by onehotchili

I have a hunch I know which dealer you saw that sub 14k 5167... Look closely at the paperwork to see exactly what calibre is in that 5167. I believe some of the early models 315 SC vs 324 SC of the newer ones.

As for your choices... I recently went with a 5167 as my daily one and only watch. I love it. I thought about saving up more for a 5711, but for now I am content with what I have. Far down the road I'll get another Patek... Maybe a 5196p, but I'll wait till I start and sell my 2nd company to celebrate with that watch!

I will check that out and see. Thanks for the info as I didn't know the same model had two different movements.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

$14K USD for a 5 year old 5167A in mint condition is a good price. I don't know how easy it is to obtain the metal bracelet and if Patek sells them separately like they do with the rubber strap. It is a very inconspicuous watch that can be worn everywhere, without drawing any attention.

Yes! Stealth mode most likely with everyone I know. They wouldn't know a Patek from a JLC.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Not interchangeable

Huh? What do you mean? Only the /1a will accept the bracelet? If that's the case I understand.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by onehotchili

I have a hunch I know which dealer you saw that sub 14k 5167... Look closely at the paperwork to see exactly what calibre is in that 5167. I believe some of the early models 315 SC vs 324 SC of the newer ones.

As for your choices... I recently went with a 5167 as my daily one and only watch. I love it. I thought about saving up more for a 5711, but for now I am content with what I have. Far down the road I'll get another Patek... Maybe a 5196p, but I'll wait till I start and sell my 2nd company to celebrate with that watch!

It has the 324 movement and if I can put a bracelet on it I'm going to get it. If I can't I need to think for a few days if I want to spend that much without having a bracelet option.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by Tay821

14k? If you're not considering it I will.

If you are wanting it and I don't because of bracelet I'll let you know. Just pm me if really want to grab it.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Huh? What do you mean? Only the /1a will accept the bracelet? If that's the case I understand.

5167A is rubber and can't switch to bracelet and 5167/1A is bracelet that can't switch to rubber bracelet

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by KarlS

5167A is rubber and can't switch to bracelet and 5167/1A is bracelet that can't switch to rubber bracelet

Ok. Now you are confusing me. I've seen several 5167/1a listings that had both the rubber strap and bracelet. I've never seen a 5167a with bracelet like you are saying so that makes sense but why won't the strap work when it's listed in the sells ad as having both? I'm ignorant to the facts so have to ask why so many advertise the /1a as having both options. I even mentioned wanting both options to one of the largest sellers here and he gave me a price but didn't mention I would be buying a rubber strap that wouldn't work.

Here is a link where owners talk about switching the rubber strap on their 1a too so I'm even more confused. Is there a certain year when they stopped being swappable or started being swappable? This was a 2015 year model thread.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...t+rubber+strap

[samuelhuntington]

Originally Posted by KarlS

5167A is rubber and can't switch to bracelet and 5167/1A is bracelet that can't switch to rubber bracelet

From what I understand the early 5167's were not interchangeable. Patek fixed the issue with the newer ones (not sure when the change over took place) and now you can do strap or bracelet. On older 5167's you need to contact Patek and give them the serial number and they can tell you if bracelet and strap will fit or not.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by samuelhuntington

From what I understand the early 5167's were not interchangeable. Patek fixed the issue with the newer ones (not sure when the change over took place) and now you can do strap or bracelet. On older 5167's you need to contact Patek and give them the serial number and they can tell you if bracelet and strap will fit or not.

Ok. Now that makes sense. I thought I had gone mad because I knew I had seen many owners change from bracelet to strap and say how much more they liked the strap. Wow! It's amazing how sometimes people can persuade your brain into telling itself you were wrong when knowing good and well you had seen it with your own two eyes. Lol. No offense Karl but you had me really questioning myself.

So as long as I confirm the serial is new enough I have no worries.

And, I also checked a little further with the $14000 5167 and its description was incorrect. It is a 315. I don't think it was deliberate but glad I asked. What improvements were made from the 315 to the 324. I'm sorry but if I read them from specs I wouldn't know what good they were so in laymen terms what were they. I'm still trying to become more familiar with horology it's just baby steps though.

[samuelhuntington]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Ok. Now that makes sense. I thought I had gone mad because I knew I had seen many owners change from bracelet to strap and say how much more they liked the strap. Wow! It's amazing how sometimes people can persuade your brain into telling itself you were wrong when knowing good and well you had seen it with your own two eyes. Lol. No offense Karl but you had me really questioning myself.

So as long as I confirm the serial is new enough I have no worries.

And, I also checked a little further with the $14000 5167 and its description was incorrect. It is a 315. I don't think it was deliberate but glad I asked. What improvements were made from the 315 to the 324. I'm sorry but if I read them from specs I wouldn't know what good they were so in laymen terms what were they. I'm still trying to become more familiar with horology it's just baby steps though.

That sounds like an early one so I doubt you can change from strap to bracelet. Only way to know is check with pp. As far as movement differences I can't help you but if it were me I would spend another couple thousand and get one with a 324 caliber and option to use bracelet and strap. (Although I have no interest in bracelet as the strap makes the watch imo)

[onehotchili]

Originally Posted by Alford78

It has the 324 movement and if I can put a bracelet on it I'm going to get it. If I can't I need to think for a few days if I want to spend that much without having a bracelet option.

That is good if they confirmed that it had the 324 calibre. I asked the dealer to take a picture of the movement to confirm since the paper work I saw said 315, and they never responded.

Good luck with the bracelet option. Personally I love the rubber strap and recently ordered a 2nd strap from an AD for the summer months when my wrists swell more :)

[Peterandwatches]

I would go Aquanaut, given the two choices for the versatility. Feels great on the wrist.

You might as also find some middle ground with an Audemars 15400 in white. You get the Gentra design at the fraction of 5711, and it dresses up and down nicely with your attire. Good luck!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Alford78

It has the 324 movement and if I can put a bracelet on it I'm going to get it. If I can't I need to think for a few days if I want to spend that much without having a bracelet option.

Yes you can go bracelet and used the 5167 sells for about $14000 to a bit more in mint just serviced condition. Just sold mine and got a Rolex, needed something durable for daily wear with long service intervals. Reasonable service costs that are handled in a timely manner is a nice bonus. Wore the 5167 as a daily beater and it worked fine, yet the case wasn't as robust as I'd hoped. :(

PS: Some early models could not be bracelet swapped as I recall, so call Patek with the first few serial numbers and they'll know for sure. Ask about bracelet cost too, just so you know.