Submariner band

[springer]

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/422...mZ310089212355

Here is a live auction down on the bay for a Submariner with a counterfeit band. The auction states that the band may not be original. Probably should read....the band is counterfeit. What say you?

Another fisherman fishing for suckers out on the bay.

[tudorman8276]

...BAND.

Stan.

[Orchi]

Err buddy Springer...good catch again...!

The Seller mentioned the watch having water-proof of 1000ft...
BUT by the looks of the watch...it could be a Rolex 1680 Sub which should only have at best...660ft = 200m of Depth rating...

So which is not true...?

BUT the bracelet combo...is definitely FAKE...!

This live auction should be canceled immediately...!

[tudorman8276]

...needs to go away.

...the band is FAKE.

...reported DIRECT to eBay.

Stan.

[Terry Newton]

I contacted E-bay over the auction. We'll see what E-bay does with it.

Terry Newton

[stevemulholland3]

that is a nice 1680,the seller should have just sold the watch without that hideous band!
and they could have done a much better job describing it!!

[jeff hess]

Gosh, I am a bit confused. Please help me.

Am I missing something here? the seller thinks that the band may not be original...and has said so? And we are trying to get it taken down as counterfeit?

I would bid on this watch in a heartbeat.
Jeff

[Parachrom]

IS the L under the crown too far to the left??

[chopperboy]

What a comedy show.........

[springer]

Originally Posted by jeff hess

Gosh, I am a bit confused. Please help me.

Am I missing something here? the seller thinks that the band may not be original...and has said so? And we are trying to get it taken down as counterfeit?

I would bid on this watch in a heartbeat.
Jeff

Probably the best way to buy this is off-line as a fraudulent sale of a counterfeit, trademarked item is illegal Jeff, at least in the United States.

That band would definately fit within those paramenters. Just because you tell somebody that something is counterfeited or non-original in this case, does give you a right to sell it. This listing is not about a non-original Rolex band but counterfeited property rights and a fraudulently produced band.


He should have listed the head piece only.

[Terry Newton]

Originally Posted by springer

He should have listed the head piece only.

Exactly what I told the person I advised. This is always an ethical quandary as, the violation is still there with the fake band. The solution is to replace the band or sell the head piece only as John suggests.

Terry Newton

[jeff hess]

Hi John,

this brings up a couple of interesting points about the scammers and auctions.

(And for the record, I do not think this fellow is a scammer at all)

Traditional auctions are "As is where is". "All sales final" "buyer beware" etc.

Ebay sellers are held to a much higher scrutiny. On this forum, it seems that the conventional wisdom is that if you are not a bona fide and true expert on a subject that you should NOT be allowed to sell at auction.

Also, Rolex is very diligent about protecting their intellectual property. As they should be. Rolex sue's at the drop of a hat and has tested just about every aspect of laws and intellectual property.

It seems they ran into some road blocks on a couple of issues. Those of adding bezels and and adornments and those of adding gold to formerly stainless steel bands making them two-tone. And those of similar marks to the "Crown mark".

the band on the subject watch....is it just a replacement band? or a coutnerfeit? We have no idea if it says Rolex on the inside clasp. If it does, the case is closed. Counterfeit. But if it does not have Rolex written on the inside clasp and if that Crown looking thing is actually upon closer inspection a hand or a shell or any myriad of other things I have observed on bands, then is it truly counterfeit? Or just annoying to us?

I think this one is a gray area and should not be tampered with. he admits that the band might not be real and then, in the Q&A area says that he has been told the band is not genuine. Seems pretty straight up to me.

the only real annoying thing to me as an aficionado and as a bidder is that he did not take tons of pics, (a must for a bidder these days) and that the band has that annoying crown-looking thing on it.

Jeff

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by jeff hess

the band on the subject watch....is it just a replacement band? or a coutnerfeit? We have no idea if it says Rolex on the inside clasp. If it does, the case is closed. Counterfeit. But if it does not have Rolex written on the inside clasp and if that Crown looking thing is actually upon closer inspection a hand or a shell or any myriad of other things I have observed on bands, then is it truly counterfeit? Or just annoying to us? Jeff

Err buddy Jeff Hess...Orchi understands your points...clearly.

The reason why Orchi said it was a FAKE bracelet(or counterfeit)...is this...

[tudorman8276]

Originally Posted by Orchi

Err buddy Jeff Hess...Orchi understands your points...clearly.

The reason why Orchi said it was a FAKE bracelet(or counterfeit)...is this...

...totally AGREE w/Springer and Orchi.

...it is a misrepresentation and TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT, notwithstanding what the verbage is.

Stan.

[jeff hess]

Not to argue, but...

1. The band is clearly not right.
2. the seller says twice that he thinks the band is not right.
3. The band "might" be trademark infringement (would need a closer look at that crown thing and markings on inside band)
4. There is NO misprepresentation at all.

Jeff
I see no reason at all to ask Rolex to take down this auction with current information.

[stevemulholland3]

I have to agree with jeff guys.if the info is stated that in no uncertain terms that the band is a fake,then the auction should be allowed to continue.
the seller was not being deceptive-although I do agree that he should have had the watch in its entirety checked for authenticity and when the band was found not to be authentic then he should have just sold the watch without it.but obviously that did not happen.no harm no foul,at least the seller did not try and hide the fact that we e-mailed him about the bracelet.
I actually am going to bid on that beauty..

[springer]

Originally Posted by jeff hess

Not to argue, but...

1. The band is clearly not right.
2. the seller says twice that he thinks the band is not right.
3. The band "might" be trademark infringement (would need a closer look at that crown thing and markings on inside band)
4. There is NO misprepresentation at all.

Jeff
I see no reason at all to ask Rolex to take down this auction with current information.

You state the band might be trademarkmark infringement. When wouldn't a counterfeit band be trademark infringement as I am totally confused about when trademark infringement is legal?

Also, the only reason Rolex might want to take down this auction is the guy is selling one of their bands - which is fake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems to be a a fairly good reason to me.

[springer]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

I have to agree with jeff guys.if the info is stated that in no uncertain terms that the band is a fake,then the auction should be allowed to continue.
the seller was not being deceptive-although I do agree that he should have had the watch in its entirety checked for authenticity and when the band was found not to be authentic then he should have just sold the watch without it.but obviously that did not happen.no harm no foul,at least the seller did not try and hide the fact that we e-mailed him about the bracelet.
I actually am going to bid on that beauty..

Let me see if I understand this, so now it is OK to sell fakes as long as they tell you in advance that it is fake. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got some fake money for sale, anybody interested?

[Orchi]

Err buddies...in eBay...there are these 2 available selections...

1. Potential Trademark infringement...
2. Item or description that encourages Trademark infringement...

BOTH are relevant to this particular case...!

[stevemulholland3]

I wrote in the post that I thought it should have been posted with out the band-at the same time I dont think this guy should get his auction canceled this time,at least he was honest,the watch is not fake-just the band.
there have been several e-bayes who have contacted me directly whose auctions where canceled by ebay for bracelet issues-like the guy who had is auction canceled for a fake divers link??
this guy had over 700 positive feedback and not one negative.we are getting carried away with reporting every technicality here.
a lot of these sellers are 100% legit and dont deserve to have their livelihood put in jeopardy over small things.lets concentrate on more diabolical sellers-and there are plenty out there..
steve
p.s.-how muc h money you got for sale john-lol

[stevemulholland3]

I am not saying that fakes should be allowed if they say its a fake,I am just saying that since this auction is already in play and the seller has notified us of his mistake then why cancel it..you only have a couple of strikes on ebay then you can no longer sell.

[Orchi]

there have been several e-bayes who have contacted me directly whose auctions where canceled by ebay for bracelet issues-like the guy who had is auction canceled for a fake divers link??
this guy had over 700 positive feedback and not one negative.we are getting carried away with reporting every technicality here.
a lot of these sellers are 100% legit and dont deserve to have their livelihood put in jeopardy over small things.lets concentrate on more diabolical sellers-and there are plenty out there..

Err buddy Steve...in that instance...
Orchi could imagine the look on the poor newbie
buyer's face...when he sends the other SD or SUB with a FAKE Diver links
to RSC for service...one or two years down the line...

IF Orchi were in that Seller's shoes...backed with such an impeccable track
record(over 700 +ve FB)...Orchi would assure eBay that it was a ONE off
mistake...within reasonable excuse.

Future listings of Rolex watches...would be 100% thoroughly checked out fine...
n guaranteed that they would NOT contain any FAKE Rolex components...
before they are being listed for auctions...

But that's just Orchi's humble suggestion...

[Some Pair]

"Sunday school is in session"....thanks Gents!

[stevemulholland3]

I completely see your point orchi,in fact I see the point from both perspectives as I buy and sell on a weekly basis.it is just we are all humans and make mistakes.
orchi you know how hard it is to get a real response from ebay-I think they need more human interaction with these auctions-and I think they are trying to achieve that goal,
we will just see how well they accomplish it.
I am stepping off my soap box..

[jeff hess]

You state the band might be trademarkmark infringement. When wouldn't a counterfeit band be trademark infringement as I am totally confused about when trademark infringement is legal?

Also, the only reason Rolex might want to take down this auction is the guy is selling one of their bands - which is fake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems to be a a fairly good reason to me.
---------------------

hi,

you guys do a bang up job in finding fakes and scammers and I am firmly on the side of getting rid of cheats, liars, fakers and scammers. And running them off of ebay. They are the guys who give ebay a bad name! Keep it up!

But this one is so full of gray area that I worry that this seller might have his livlihood taken from him for a prettly flimsy reason. The watch is genuine. The watch is a nice scarce model. The watch is desirable. It "MAY" have a counterfeit band. It DOES have a band that is not original and the seller DOES note this.

If ebay gives him strikes for counterfeit the following happens with ebay'snew strict rules:
1. His search is lowered. Meaning every item he sells will be below all others of the same type, lower than those of cheaper and those of higher value. And at the end of the long list of sellers no matter what search criteria you use.
2. higher fee's
3. Possilbe banishment from ebay.
4. Inability to list any trademarked item (Tiffany, Rolex, ) forever.

The methodology used to deem this one as a fraudulent auction worthy of banishment seems a bit weak to me. The guy clearly is not out to deceive anyone.

Others may differ of course.

Jeff

[springer]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

I wrote in the post that I thought it should have been posted with out the band-at the same time I dont think this guy should get his auction canceled this time,at least he was honest,the watch is not fake-just the band.
there have been several e-bayes who have contacted me directly whose auctions where canceled by ebay for bracelet issues-like the guy who had is auction canceled for a fake divers link??
this guy had over 700 positive feedback and not one negative.we are getting carried away with reporting every technicality here.
a lot of these sellers are 100% legit and dont deserve to have their livelihood put in jeopardy over small things.lets concentrate on more diabolical sellers-and there are plenty out there..
steve
p.s.-how muc h money you got for sale john-lol

Well Steve, I don't agree with you and that's the way it looks to me. Being a power seller really has no relevance here, that doesn't make them any more reputable or reliable which could be applied to many facets of the business world. Being a power tells me that they should probably be more trustworthy as they've been on ebay a while. That doesn't mean that their auctions are 100%, nor does it excuse them from the same parameters applied to the rest of ebay and the business world as far as abiding by the the same laws and regulations as the rest of us.

With that in mind Watchout for this auction as I originally posted, the band is 100% fake. Personally, I don't care for, nor will I buy from sellers of fake merchandise. I encourage others to do the same.

P.S. I'm selling the counterfeit at $1.10 on the dollar...you still interested?

[vtime716]

it stated in the listing

"running, replaced non Rolex band, shows signs of light wear"

so it's the rolex watch that he is selling and not the band..... so why axed him for that even if the watch he is selling is original............

[Terry Newton]

It's a simple solution to me, remove the band, sell the watch head. This way there is no trademark violation, auction does not get canceled, life goes on for all. I hate the shades of gray. What's right for one should be right for all.

Here's an example: Rush Limbaugh for years touted on his show about the evils of drugs, didn't believe in addiction, did not believe in treatment for addiction, thought treatment was a way for people to get out of doing time for their crimes, thought all drug users should go to prison, throw away the key and good riddance.

Rush Limbaugh is caught committing prescription fraud by physician shopping, to get more of the painkillers he had become addicted to and, broke the law on many counts.

All of a sudden Rush is pleading for leniency. He is claiming he has the disease of addiction and deserves to go to treatment instead of going to jail.

It was very interesting watching how this went down.

I never said this seller is a scammer and they did disclose the band is probably not genuine. If that is the case, which it looks like is the case, remove the band and there is no issue.

Terry Newton

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by vtime716

it stated in the listing

"running, replaced non Rolex band, shows signs of light wear"

so it's the rolex watch that he is selling and not the band..... so why axed him for that even if the watch he is selling is original............

Err buddy James...what the Seller says in his listing description is NOT true...

As you can see from this picture...there is that Rolex "Coronet" clearly
marked on the top of the buckle...which means it's a counterfeit
or FAKE item...

It's definitely NOT aftermarket as described by the Seller...
which should have NO marking that might look like the Original brand...

That's Orchi's beef...

[vtime716]

well, forget about the band, just bid on the watch. i think there is a value for the watch...