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ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
1 April 2010, 02:46 PM
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#1 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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TRF FS: 6538 "James Bond" Sub has a FAKEEE Dial..
Err buddies...the Seller of this watch describe it in this manner...
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=122157 Nice (unpolished) case with thick lugs... Dial is NOT original Rolex. The dial that was on it was a bad refinish job, so we replaced it with the dial you see on it now. Again, while the dial looks nice and vintage, it is NOT an original Rolex dial. I stress these because everyone who sees the watch thinks the dial is original. Despite "every efforts" by the Seller to describe the Dial on his watch... as NOT being a Rolex Original Dial... he continues to post it for sale in TRF market... IF Orchi recalls correctly at the Rules in the TRF Market... one of them clearly reminded that NO FAKE...counterfeit...or imitation... items is allowed to be posted for sale... Similarly...the same Seller had posted the same FS Ad in VRF market... on March 28, 2010... Subsequently the Ad was removed by Forum Admin... as the watch being posted for sale contained a FAKEEE Dial... http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...+in+VRM-%2B%2B http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...kindly..%2B%2B Secondly...the case of the watch is clearly stated in one of the RSC papers... as having been refinished... Yet the Seller claims that the case is being... "Nice (unpolished) case with thick lugs..." The TRF Mod...Buddy Mike has already sought the clarification from the Seller... on the issue with the Dial... but the Ad is still valid in TRF market... Perhaps the Seller has not responded?  Oh btw...if anyone notices that Orchi's expose on the same matter... in VRF may have met with some unkind resistance... so now...would you think also Orchi could be a loose cannon in here too...??  
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1 April 2010, 03:14 PM
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#2 |
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: David Walz
Location: San Diego CA USA
Watch: my hand. :)
Posts: 9,156
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I for one am open to your education anytime I enjoy your posts.
 I found a fake Rolex today on Ebay: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=122608 |
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1 April 2010, 03:21 PM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: texas
Watch: GMT Master IIc
Posts: 545
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I am possibly naive, But if the watch, ie, guts, case, bezel, maybe crystal are legit and he has admited an..I'll say 'aftermarket' dial, then is that so wrong? Just curious, don't flame me please
Last edited by 2005rivers; 1 April 2010 at 03:24 PM.. Reason: spelling |
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1 April 2010, 03:22 PM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: texas
Watch: GMT Master IIc
Posts: 545
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I guess is what I'm asking is at what point does the watch become fake
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1 April 2010, 03:26 PM
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#5 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,380
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Quote:
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1 April 2010, 03:32 PM
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#6 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Antonio
Watch: UN Starry Night
Posts: 2,150
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Quote:
 Places other than the Watch Out section..
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1 April 2010, 03:38 PM
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#7 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,380
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Quote:
framken is combination of genuine Rolex parts put together to make up a watch but it would never have left the factory like that, ie it is not a correct model. fake is the use of parts that are not genuine. Rolex. |
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1 April 2010, 03:39 PM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: texas
Watch: GMT Master IIc
Posts: 545
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Quote:
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1 April 2010, 03:40 PM
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#9 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: texas
Watch: GMT Master IIc
Posts: 545
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Quote:
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1 April 2010, 03:54 PM
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#10 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Antonio
Watch: UN Starry Night
Posts: 2,150
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Quote:
I personally have equal disdain for them both. 
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1 April 2010, 07:23 PM
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#11 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,380
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Quote:
On the contrary, as a source of good information, great reference material and a transferable knowledge of Rolex....would be a BIG yes....IMHO.........
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1 April 2010, 07:58 PM
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#12 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 969
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Seller
Sorry for jumping in but :
Seller is a rather reliable guy, the watch was offered earlier (i've seen it) with a original dial that looked really bad. The seller clearly mentions the dial being aftermarket, we all know it is really difficult to obtain an original dial, even refinished these dials are difficult to obtain. I would rather choose a non original nice looking (fake) dial instead of a bad repainted one on original baseplate. The baseplate for these watches will also cost 2K+ without being refinished. The unpolished part is a riddle to me, the service papers clearly mention it. Don't worry to much about the seller, I believe he is well respected. Jack |
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1 April 2010, 08:08 PM
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#13 | ||
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,380
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Quote:
Cost or availability is not an issue and I cannot believe you are saying that you would rather buy a watch with a fake dial rather than the original. Quote:
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1 April 2010, 09:09 PM
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#14 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 969
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Sorry
Sorry,
It's not about wanting to have a fake dial but sometimes it's the only solution to have the watch wearable. I been searching a dial for my 6605 DJ in the past and it's almost impossible to find original repainted. It's something like the 50's and 60's US cars on Cuba, they are almost all equipped with Sovjet made V8 engines because there are no spare parts because of the embargo. Jack |
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1 April 2010, 09:39 PM
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#15 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,081
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I agree with Jackxv
I think what the seller has done in regards to the dial is acceptable as they have been open and honest about it. It's the best solution at the moment to be able to make the watch complete and wearable. If a buyer wanted to put on a genuine period Rolex 6538 dial then good luck to them finding one and the many thousands of dollars it will cost acquire it as Rolex sure won't be able to sell them one or help them out. Also the replacement dial is on an original Singer plate as far as i can see so that makes it a refinished Rolex dial, not an out and out fake. |
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1 April 2010, 09:44 PM
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#16 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Watch: See my signature
Posts: 1,189
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Ad's been pulled from TRF.
Counterfeit are counterfeit and da rules is the rules. Amen
__________________
"Woody and Jen say hey from North Kakalaki"  19019, 19018x3, 17000x2, 16570x2, 16220, 5700, 1501, 6564, 16030, 16710, 16610 
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1 April 2010, 09:48 PM
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#17 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,380
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Quote:
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1 April 2010, 10:29 PM
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#18 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Err buddies...Amen to that...3.
It's NOT about whether the Seller is likable reputable adorable...or NOT... It's nothing personal... A fake is a fake... n Rules are rules... TRF does NOT condone the sale of wannabe... imitation... counterfeit... n FAKEEE stuffs... That's the way it is... |
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1 April 2010, 10:42 PM
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#19 | |||
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Antonio
Watch: UN Starry Night
Posts: 2,150
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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1 April 2010, 11:15 PM
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#20 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,075
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Quote:
Hi Buddy Orchi, Could you please help a dummy :) How do you determine between fake and redone dial? Your reference photo you used seems to be from that Yuck site that sells fake cases and fake Rolex 7206 bracelets. However the dials claim to be redone on Singer plates. Are you saying this is a lie and they are made in some China factory as fakes? Or, are you saying redone on original Singer plate = Fakee? Thanks as I’m confused about this manner. |
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1 April 2010, 11:18 PM
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#21 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Real Name: Nikos
Location: Florida
Watch: Rolex GMT 16750
Posts: 8,415
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I have said it before and ill say it 1 more time. Most if not all of those stamped singer base plates are FAKE.Like the previous poster above said 2k for a baseplate yet Yuck sells it for $150 refinished. LOL
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Follow Me On Instagram @nickgogas Original Owner ROLEX 16750 GMT Daily Wearer For Over 13,000 Days And Counting
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1 April 2010, 11:30 PM
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#22 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,075
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Also,
Is this the watch that SteveM almost bought? If so, he said redone, not fake.. Orchi, please help a dummy :) http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=121417 |
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1 April 2010, 11:44 PM
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#23 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Err buddies...yes it's the similar FAKEEE Dial...
made by someone's backyard...NOT Rolex.  It even fooled a certain nos. of well experienced folks that would even swear... that the Dial was merely being..."Relumed. Period"... The Dial format n prints...are all wrong. Such is the quality of FAKEEE Dials these days... |
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1 April 2010, 11:46 PM
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#24 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
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Orchi, so what do you consider fake? A refinished dial that was refinished exactly the same as it was when it came from the factory is ok?
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1 April 2010, 11:56 PM
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#25 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,081
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Yes, it all seemed to be acceptable when it was SteveM showing a watch with a fefinished dial but now it's not? Funny!
OK, so by the rule of the TRF law the sale should not be allowed if the parts is fake (and why the hell are people starting to say/use fakeeeee all the time? It's a nonsense word). But like a couple of others have said, these dials are on original Singer plates. There are plenty of them around, and they're not $2k. I've seen plenty of fake Singer dials and they look, well, fake. And these don't imo.So even if this seller is saying not original Rolex dial the chances are it is. Right, now this is a friendly community where people help one another, right? So instead of all the naysayers just blindly hanging off the back of Orchi's coat tails and ganging up on the seller why don't you offer friendly advice about what he should do in this situation? Orchi - I'm sorry but although i respect your great knowledge with regards to these matter and respect your opinion i cannot agree with it in many cases. I agree with what a lot of VRF people are saying. I think you see things too black and white and are not willing to take real world matters and factors into consideration. Lets recap, he's replaced a bad old redial with a quite decent redial. He's been honest about that. He's selling the watch at a price that reflects that. The buyer knows exactly what they are getting and can then of course alter or change the watch as they wish. Now if this isn't good enough for some of you then why don't you tell him or show him where he can get one that you think is acceptable? Lets not forget, Rolex will not help out here. You cannot buy these dials from them. |
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1 April 2010, 11:58 PM
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#26 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
or repainted(to larger scale)... or touch-up or relumed(to the lessor extent)... should be done on Original plate of the Dial maker... for Rolex(originally). That's the acceptable norm by many enthusiasts... But strictly for Orchi... Refinished or Redone... even IF it might have been done... on any Original plate... is NOT acceptable... Simply because... the Seller/Collector would NOT be able to prove... its originality of the Redone Dial plate... whether it had indeed belonged to the same watch... as it had left Rolex factory... |
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2 April 2010, 12:07 AM
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#27 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,081
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Quote:
And now there are dozens of people on here and other forums blindly following what you say because they have no other idea or knowledge and they think they will look good if they agree with you. Orchi, please, and i say this as respectfully as I can. I think you mean well but you need to step back a bit. You are not the king of all things Rolex and decider of what is right/wrong. It is not up to you to decide what is right or not. By all means have your own opinion but please don't try to force it down everyone else's throat when it is not the accepted opinion of the majority of other collectors and enthusiasts. Especially when so many people seem to blindly take what you say as gospel and absolute fact.
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2 April 2010, 12:17 AM
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#28 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
Please do not accuse Orchi to be claiming somethings... or doing the things that you just said... or being somebody that Orchi is NOT... That tantamounts to being a personal attack... |
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2 April 2010, 12:19 AM
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#29 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
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Quote:
Thank you buddy...Now I understand. As always, a fountain of wisdom. For others, I do not see Orchi forcing anything down anyone's throat. He put it the way he sees it and if that's black and white without gray then that's the way it is in his world. You can follow it or you can choose your own path. I can not follow his path on everything simply because I am not a true collector. My Tudor had a refinished dial and for me that's acceptable and I don't really care, it looks great and that's all I care about. Now for others this is sacrilege, and I accept that. There are different levels of collectors/enthusiasts here and we as a collective whole need to step back and look at it that way. This is only how I see things. |
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2 April 2010, 12:38 AM
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#30 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,081
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Quote:
I just think there is big difference between having a personal opinion (everyone does!) and stating that opinion and trying to make everyone else believe that opinion and portray that opinion as absolute 100% fact. Especially when a lot of people do think that what you say is always absolute fact and they don't think or research things themselves, just believe what you say. Again, sorry if i offended you, maybe you don't mean to come across the way you do/are.
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