I'm lost at this 3700 dial variation

[JasonBetts]

Finally took the plunge after several vintage Rolex, here I am with my newly acquired 3700/1 two tone from 1979.

Watch is in OK conditions but after some research, can't seem to identify which type is this dial.

Looking at the movement no 1.309.xxx and case no 541.xxx the dial should belong to type 5 as mentioned in watchprosite.com.

However looking under loupe, something doesn't add up as mine has the stress above E in 'GENEVE' whilst mstang's reference in type 5 doesn't. Other attributes match my dial, such as the:

- shorter below line in 'K'
- shorter middle stroke in'E' and
- higher 'Patek Philippe' print

Calling on members here who might be familiar with 3700. What's your take on this dial? Could it be a service dial?







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[Daytonaman799]

I had a two tone I traded to my father of the same vintage and it had the same dial. I think it’s correct.

[GeraldGentaFan]

Most service dials don’t have the sigma. Those that do don’t have the accent in Genève. This one has sigma and accent so it probably isn’t a service dial. But it isn’t the typical 3700j dial either as you mention. But I wouldn’t worry about it. To me it looks like another dial variant that Mstanga forgot to mention in his book.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Daytonaman799

I had a two tone I traded to my father of the same vintage and it had the same dial. I think it’s correct.

Thanks for your reply. Since not many of this reference around on the internet, I have limited references to cross check. Hopefully it's legit.


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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by GeraldGentaFan

Most service dials don’t have the sigma. Those that do don’t have the accent in Genève. This one has sigma and accent so it probably isn’t a service dial. But it isn’t the typical 3700j dial either as you mention. But I wouldn’t worry about it. To me it looks like another dial variant that Mstanga forgot to mention in his book.

Appreciate your input. That's what I was lead to believe. It has Sigma but also has the accent in Geneve. I agree with your observation that this may not a service dial because when I use 30x loupe, the tritium in the hour markers were visible 'aged' discolored into creamy complexion.

Having said that, I suspect the hands that were service hands as the tritium looks 'newer' greener and still has some glow compared to the markers.

Here are some shots of the tritium under 395nm UV light. You can see the hands glow brighter.

What do you think?








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[GeraldGentaFan]

You’re probably right regarding the hands, but then again I have seen original hands on vintage pateks with a very different glow than the markers because they might have been produced at a different time or by a different manufacturer. The charm of vintage watch collection...

[JasonBetts]

Indeed. I don't get the same thrill from my other 57xx compared to this vintage 3700. It's very thin yet solidly built and wears super comfy on the wrist. I know understand why this Nautilus was a game changer back then


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[mstanga]

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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by mstanga

.

Wow the 'mstanga' is here.

I'd like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank you for your extensive research on the Nautilus 3700. It's the greatest report unparalleled anywhere else that actually helped me pulled the trigger on this 3700 and I'm grateful everyday for this piece.

It's an honor


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[JasonBetts]

One more 'inconsistency' I found on my 3700: the crown and Calatrava logo were not made of gold, they're on steel. Just wondering.





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[mstanga]

Hi Jason,
It is since about 2 years that I've decided to unplug to forums and social media, but yesterday a Google search drove me to your post and so now I would like to try to answer.

The dial you are showing (from what I can see) is a type 3 dial
We know the existence of type "1", "1 with batons", "2", "3", "3 bis with serifs", "4", "5", "6", "7", "8" and the so called after service ones

Type 3 dial
This type of writing is similar to the type 1 but the lower summit of the "V" is a little truncated, "H" is a bit wider, the “accent” on the second "E" of GENÈVE is not so close, still attached but a little more prominent and the legs of "K" are not exactly converging to the same point. There is also a general wider spacing, mainly between “I” and “L” compared to type 1 and type 2 dials and "G" is a little more rounded with the internal leg/dash that is a little longer/wider than the one on type 1 dial. We find at 6 o'clock "sigma SWISS sigma". On the back we find engraved “93Y * 201 TT”

Patek Philippe signature positioning
23 rows (21 visible) dials positioning type 1: the writing "PATEK PHILIPPE" is positioned on the fourth top row starting from the center
hands with two empty rows before indexes at 12 o'clock (we find this configuration in dial type 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8 and
occasionally in dial type 4)

23 rows (21 visible) dials positioning type 2: the writing "PATEK PHILIPPE" is positioned on the fifth top row starting from the center hands
with only one empty row before indexes at 12 o'clock (we find this configuration generally in dial type 3, rarely in dial type 5
and very rarely in dial type 1 dots and type 2)




There are even dial positioning type 3 and type 4 regarding 25 rows (23 visibile) dials but this is another story. :-)


The rebus of the color/material of the crowns
Even the crown that at a first sight could seem an easy issue has got his rebus because if for a 3700 in steel the crown is for sure in steel as like for a 3700 in yellow gold that is for sure in yellow gold we stop in front of the 3700 in steel and gold because some (the most) of them have the crown in steel but some (the few) have the crown in yellow gold. So? Regarding the white gold and platinum ref. 3700 we think that the crowns should be respectively in white gold and platinum but I've never tested them so I can not confirm it at 100%

Recap:
ref. 3700 steel
the crown is in steel

ref. 3700 steel & gold
the crown is in steel (the most) or in yellow gold (the few)

ref. 3700 yellow gold
the crown is in yellow gold

ref. 3700 white gold
the crown is in white gold

ref. 3700 platinum
the crown is in platinum




Hope this help.
Ciao Marco (mstanga)

p.s.: Thank you very much for your kind words, really appreciated!

[JasonBetts]

Wow thanks to your reading, I now know much more about my watch than my days and weeks reading and trying to dig info online. For that I'm very grateful.

I felt bad 'pulling' you out of your withdrawal from socmed but just to let you know, ever since you're away, I found no more significant new source of references on Nautilus especially the vintage ones. You're one of the best, if not the best on this subject.

I can imagine the hundreds of hours you spent learning and researching about this amazing timepeace, Patek Phillippe should thank you because your work enables new collectors like me understand more about it's heritage. Not only do I understand more but it made me felt more confident plunging into this ultra expensive pool especially nowadays with price soaring like crazy.

Appreciate your time in analyzing my watch, it's been an invaluable insights for me and hopefully for other TRF members here also.


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