Update to Sotheby's Reneged on a Winning Rolex Bid: Update

[Time-After-Time]

Originally Posted by RKTINC1

These high-end auction houses always have a smell to them in my opinion. I have read several stories over the years of fishy situations and ghost bidders. I think one can play in that world if you want to pay the premiums it demands, but as in your situation when a sharp buyer that doesn't run in that tight circle gets their nose under the tint (and in your case a bargain) they pull the shades down tight until you go away. I would get my money back and pay market price to a trusted dealer like Jacobs in LA, Bob, or send you money to Atlanta. Those guys are quality actors.

Do you have we links to Jacob in LA or Bob or Atlanta?
There are about 20 jewelry stores in LA with the name Jacobs in it.

Thanks!

[statsman]

Lawyers are expensive, if they charge you. A lot of people are related to or are friends with lawyers. It might cost no more than a dinner to have one write a letter to Sotheby’s asking why they can’t complete their side of the deal.

It’s a bad look for Sotheby’s. Stubhub sells your tickets, but requires you to give them your credit card number. That way, if you can’t execute a sale they broker, they will use your credit card to purchase comparable tickets from someone else…regardless of the cost to you.

Are we thinking the watch was pulled for not going for a high enough price? Then why doesn’t Sotheby’s have a minimum bid price? Or at least a shill to make bogus higher bids? It speaks to poor competence.

I get that they’re never going to come clean and admit to what happened, but they could try a little harder to make it right (someone suggested giving a credit for the auctioneer’s premium on a future auction).

I don’t see them offering to refund his money as a real attempt to make it good. He’s going to get his money back. He paid for a watch, and he never received it. If they don’t give it back, they’re facing criminal problems.

The whole thing stinks and I applaud the poster for trying to inflict a little pain.

[Pinchy]

Don't listen to these losers, fight man fight!

[Pinchy]

Whatever you do, no NDA please, we want to hear about it when you WIN.

[Policylimits]

I am a plaintiffs atty and Rolex dork… but not in your jurisdiction and this is not legal advice but merely commentary for entertainment purposes….the only legal advice herein is to consult an atty licensed in your area of you wish to pursue a claim and to do so ASAP as all claims have a statute of limitations after which they are forever barred…

Fwiw, and that out of the way… I would be curious about the t&c and my guess is they have protected themselves from errors like this… and you would have an uphill battle getting to a courtroom vs arbitration and then you might lose regardless as terms and conditions would likely govern….

Also, sucks this happened and I’m sorry for you but sometimes the best course of action is to let it go and try to be grateful that your problems probably aren’t worth litigating.

[t60]

Meh I'd just take the refund. No point killing yourself over what appears to be an item that sold below it's market value.

I find it funny OP keeps calling it "my property" when he hasn't even gotten to touch the watch yet. He's gotten his money back so that sure seems like he's been made whole now.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by t60

I find it funny OP keeps calling it "my property" when he hasn't even gotten to touch the watch yet. He's gotten his money back so that sure seems like he's been made whole now.

Sotheby’s calls the watch “your property”. Refer to their email to me on June 14. Also, I do not have my money back.

[RolexSimon]

Whilst I do have sympathy for the OP, the responses from many have left me saddened as to human nature. Whilst some on TRF might run their lives like they're Harvey Specter from Suits, most of us don't go through life trying to make money out of lifes twists and turns. I've had some minor run ins with Sotheby's during COVID but all have been my frustration due to limits on credit card transactions and insurance limits posting watches >$50K. All essentially first world problems at a time when businesses are going under, we are possibly on the brink of a major international confrontation in SE Asia and millions are dead from COVID. Get a grip on reality and have some compassion. This may have been a minor c***-up by Sothebys but GOMO. There will always be another auction, another watch and the less TRF members that use Sothebys in the future, the better deals the rest of us will get.

[t60]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

Sotheby’s calls the watch “your property”. Refer to their email to me on June 14. Also, I do not have my money back.

And on the 17th they made clear it was no longer yours.

I am pretty certain you will get your money back in due time.

I personally wouldn't get this upset over it, but I guess you'll have to see if it's worth pursuing legally. I'd reckon it's not.

[capjand1]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

Sotheby’s calls the watch “your property”. Refer to their email to me on June 14. Also, I do not have my money back.

Thank you for your effort to bring this to as much attention as possible!
Sorry for the trouble you have gone through, but hopefully you do save other people running into similar issue with this company.

[Francist]

A mediation is the best solution i think
But if u're someone with excess time & money u can try ur luck & prove a point.
Godspeed

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by t60

And on the 17th they made clear it was no longer yours.

I am pretty certain you will get your money back in due time.

I personally wouldn't get this upset over it, but I guess you'll have to see if it's worth pursuing legally. I'd reckon it's not.

If they pulled this on me i want my money back immediately. Not in their timeframe, in mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

If they pulled this on me i want my money back immediately. Not in their timeframe, in mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s the whole point, he doesn’t want his money back

[KMalone]

I PROMISE that buried DEEP inside their 'terms of service', they can do just about anything they want. My attorney wife sitting next to me says "you won't beat Sotheby's on this transaction! Even if you win, you won't win in the end."

Take the refund and add what you would spend in attorney's fees and go buy a new Day/Date. You'll thank me later!

[PA Zu]

You got a deal that you admit was too good to be true ($25K watch for $10k). Turns out it wasn't. Not sure what you are still carrying on about.

[enjoythemusic]

The good to come of all this is that the world now knows Sotheby's will renege on an auction... even after they've accepted payment.

Buyer Beware

[subtona]

If the OP won the bid on another watch and decided not to move forward for any number of reasons after the close of the auction, and Sotheby’s had already delivered him the watch...would Sotheby’s just let it go if the OP said never mind, I’m just going to mail your watch back. Let’s forget the whole thing ever happened.

council from those who are experienced in the field, I’m sure is appreciated but
I’m not understanding the comments here that are negative in any way towards the OP.

[SN13]

Originally Posted by subtona

If the OP won the bid on another watch and decided not to move forward for any number of reasons after the close of the auction, and Sotheby’s had already delivered him the watch...would Sotheby’s just let it go if the OP said never mind, I’m just going to mail your watch back. Let’s forget the whole thing ever happened.

council from those who are experienced in the field, I’m sure is appreciated but
I’m not understanding the comments here that are negative in any way towards the OP.

Sotheby's: Congrats on your winning bid.
Buyer: Thanks, Send me my watch, then I'll pay the bid amount.
Sotheby's: Here's your watch.
Buyer: Actually the Money has been allocated to another fund and we missed it, so I'm going to have to return the watch and I promise to pay extra shipping on the next purchase.
Sotheby's: YOU OWE US OUR FEE AND YOU CAN'T CANCEL DUE TO YOUR MISTAKE!
Buyer: Well your choice is to accept a return but I'll hold this watch for a month while you decide... Oh it's nice, too bad I can't buy it, Technical issue and all.

[MJZRolex]

Originally Posted by KMalone

I PROMISE that buried DEEP inside their 'terms of service', they can do just about anything they want. My attorney wife sitting next to me says "you won't beat Sotheby's on this transaction! Even if you win, you won't win in the end."

Take the refund and add what you would spend in attorney's fees and go buy a new Day/Date. You'll thank me later!

It's a shame this happened to you, but I definitely believe this is the right advice. Good luck, however you decide to proceed.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by subtona

If the OP won the bid on another watch and decided not to move forward for any number of reasons after the close of the auction, and Sotheby’s had already delivered him the watch...would Sotheby’s just let it go if the OP said never mind, I’m just going to mail your watch back. Let’s forget the whole thing ever happened.

council from those who are experienced in the field, I’m sure is appreciated but
I’m not understanding the comments here that are negative in any way towards the OP.

Exactly this

[Corius]

I've posted on this thread before, so apologies for sticking my oar in again!

I have two suggestions:

1) The OP writes a nice conciliatory letter to Sotheby's expressing his disappointment and recognising that Sotheby's are an established, well run company, but is there some way they could work together to resolve this amicably. Perhaps by waiving fees in a future transaction or similar.

or, 2) Go hell for leather with the lawyers. Now, none of us want to see the OP out of pocket, so those on the forum encouraging him to take the legal route should get together and crowd-fund the legal costs. When the case is won, and all costs are found in favour of the OP, they would get their money back and be able to say how they contributed to justice.

Personally, I'm for the first approach.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

The good to come of all this is that the world now knows Sotheby's will renege on an auction... even after they've accepted payment.

Buyer Beware

This takeaway is why I provided an update on the situation.

At this point it's been over five weeks since the auction and it's been three weeks since Sotheby's last replied to me. I no longer expect them to seek a resolution, which is why I have decided to share everything I know so that others are aware of the risks involved in dealing with Sotheby's.

If I may pass along advice to anyone considering buying from Sotheby's:
1) Don't.
2) If you can't resist, only participate in auctions where you are there physically so that upon the fall of the hammer you can immediately pay and walk out with your property.
3) Always use a credit card. Never wire them money.

Imagine the stress and the nightmare if you had won a Platona or 5711 online, paid via wire transfer, and then have Sotheby's renege on you. Even if you agreed to a refund they'd be sitting on your +$100k for months.

As for potential sellers, be aware of their awful payment terms. There is another recent thread of a seller not getting paid by Sotheby's for over a month after the sale. In the end, the seller appears to only have been paid because he also started a TRF thread, which someone at Sotheby's read and acted upon.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...hlight=sotheby

[russ86]

As I already mentioned, something similar happened to me 2 years ago and I was devastated, all the excitement and then nothing.

[JerBear]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

This takeaway is why I provided an update on the situation.

At this point it's been over five weeks since the auction and it's been three weeks since Sotheby's last replied to me. I no longer expect them to seek a resolution, which is why I have decided to share everything I know so that others are aware of the risks involved in dealing with Sotheby's.

If I may pass along advice to anyone considering buying from Sotheby's:
1) Don't.
2) If you can't resist, only participate in auctions where you are there physically so that upon the fall of the hammer you can immediately pay and walk out with your property.
3) Always use a credit card. Never wire them money.

Imagine the stress and the nightmare if you had won a Platona or 5711 online, paid via wire transfer, and then have Sotheby's renege on you. Even if you agreed to a refund they'd be sitting on your +$100k for months.

As for potential sellers, be aware of their awful payment terms. There is another recent thread of a seller not getting paid by Sotheby's for over a month after the sale. In the end, the seller appears to only have been paid because he also started a TRF thread, which someone at Sotheby's read and acted upon.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...hlight=sotheby

I'm sorry this happened to you but I'm glad to know I need to avoid Sotheby's in the future.

[TswaneNguni]

Take home messagee : I cant buy on an auction,because I dont buy what I cant physically inspect .

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Take home messagee : I cant buy on an auction,because I dont buy what I cant physically inspect .

[donq]

So how did this work itself out in the end?

[cbalster]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

This takeaway is why I provided an update on the situation.

At this point it's been over five weeks since the auction and it's been three weeks since Sotheby's last replied to me. I no longer expect them to seek a resolution, which is why I have decided to share everything I know so that others are aware of the risks involved in dealing with Sotheby's.

If I may pass along advice to anyone considering buying from Sotheby's:
1) Don't.
2) If you can't resist, only participate in auctions where you are there physically so that upon the fall of the hammer you can immediately pay and walk out with your property.
3) Always use a credit card. Never wire them money.

Imagine the stress and the nightmare if you had won a Platona or 5711 online, paid via wire transfer, and then have Sotheby's renege on you. Even if you agreed to a refund they'd be sitting on your +$100k for months.

As for potential sellers, be aware of their awful payment terms. There is another recent thread of a seller not getting paid by Sotheby's for over a month after the sale. In the end, the seller appears to only have been paid because he also started a TRF thread, which someone at Sotheby's read and acted upon.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...hlight=sotheby

2) is not possible if I recall correctly. Property pick up is a few days after a live auction. It's a pain if you plan to fly in for the event.

[tquieng]

Take them to small claim court-

[Sunny Arizona]

Pride is dangerous. Take your refund and move on.

Originally Posted by THC

An attorney will charge by the hour for his/her services and that will strip away any sense of the good deal you initially got. This totally sucks, but as stated above, Southebys has lawyers on retainer I bet, and can take anything that comes at them, sad to say.

Get the refund and move on imo