Rolex - stopping flippers??

[Rolexken]

Originally Posted by Adam84

That was stopped because the card is part of the purchase, so the AD keeping hold of it was seen as a bit dodgy.

Personally i wouldnt have a problem with it though

Make it 5 years and if you need to sell it you have to sell to the AD…

[Devildog]

Lots of opinions and not much fact being presented thus far.

Senior employees of Rolex UK (the UK distributor - or The Rolex Watch Company Limited" to give it its full name) have told me, f2f, that Rolex does indeed "care" about flippers/scalpers, call them what you will.

Those of you in the USA may have different experiences and those employees may have been making that up, but at least I heard it direct and am not stating opinion as "fact".

[HogwldFLTR]

I think the market will impact greys more than Rolex could.

Originally Posted by Rolexken

Make it 5 years and if you need to sell it you have to sell to the AD…

If that were the case I'd expect a heft discount as the watch would be considered a long term rental and not a purchase. This wreaks of company town/company store rule.

[Harry-57]

The warranty goes with the watch, not the owner. In the UK and EU it is illegal to harvest customer information and pass it on to a third party. The sale is between the customer and the supplying AD, who owns the watch having paid Rolex for the consignment. Rolex are not involved.

Some ADs make make noises about "Rolex policy" to placate disgruntled customers, and some may have anti flipper policies (with the inevitable exceptions). Rolex don't care. Why would they?

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Lots of opinions and not much fact being presented thus far.

Senior employees of Rolex UK (the UK distributor - or The Rolex Watch Company Limited" to give it its full name) have told me, f2f, that Rolex does indeed "care" about flippers/scalpers, call them what you will.

Who are they? No harm in naming them. This has the added advantage of converting your opinion to fact, which addresses the first sentence of your post.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Lots of opinions and not much fact being presented thus far.

Senior employees of Rolex UK (the UK distributor - or The Rolex Watch Company Limited" to give it its full name) have told me, f2f, that Rolex does indeed "care" about flippers/scalpers, call them what you will.

Those of you in the USA may have different experiences and those employees may have been making that up, but at least I heard it direct and am not stating opinion as "fact".

I believe they “care” as the influence of a few well-funded, and well positioned, secondary dealers can reflect badly on Rolex itself in the public eye.

I spent last Summer talking with those same people while working through the recovery of my stolen Platona after Rolex UK seized it. I agree they care. Of course, this was all via transAtlantic phone calls.

In my earlier posts, I differentiate between caring and actually controlling the activity.

What did your contacts tell you about their efforts to curb the activity?

Rolex cares about counterfeits and includes design changes to help thwart the fakir factories like GMF Factory clone maker.

Rolex cares about brand equity and performs many charitable activities through the Foundation, plus sponsors events that exposes the brand in a favorable light.

The goodwill matters in these pursuits. Thus far, the only actions we have seen actually disadvantage the true end-user (retaining warranty cards, refusing orders, etc)


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[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Adam84

Not that simple? …..it’s in essence what happens when you order a new car in a particular specification that isn’t currently in stock at your local dealership.

As I said, Rolex wholesale to the ADs. ADs are not allowed to order most Rolex watches, they get on allocation.

It would require a step change from Rolex that they don’t allow, and haven’t for a long time.

Professional models are allocation only, and the AD distributes as they see fit (Rolex doesn’t get involved in this).

I take your point, but I don’t see it happening.

[ttomczak]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

Only VVIPs get the 116500, which end up on Chrono and with each gray, then the AD thinks us mortal folk flip them. How? We can’t get our hands on one after waiting 10-15 years.


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This is so not true. I guarantee I’m not a VVIP, yet my AD called me last May(2021) and offered me a black 116500.

He took care of a watch enthusiast, not a vvip or flipper.

[Adam84]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

As I said, Rolex wholesale to the ADs. ADs are not allowed to order most Rolex watches, they get on allocation.

It would require a step change from Rolex that they don’t allow, and haven’t for a long time.

Professional models are allocation only, and the AD distributes as they see fit (Rolex doesn’t get involved in this).

I take your point, but I don’t see it happening.

Oh I agree with you that I don’t think it will happen, just saying that they could do if they wanted to, and it wouldn’t be that difficult….

….but clearly they don’t want to for what ever reason, of course until the Rolex name gets enough bad press over supply/ flippers etc

[alphadweller]

In the current market, maybe flippers and watch dealers are needed to keep the secondary market liquid?

For every buyer you need a seller. Yes, the seller could be the AD, but what if ADs can't manage the demand from every single private individual walking into the store, i.e. every watch enthusiast and every investor looking for a quick buck? Or perhaps they can, but find it more profitable to focus on large clients who buy many pieces, much easier to manage.

All a consequence of booming demand. Only a big drop in demand can sort things out but I don't see that happening any time soon. There's a correction, yes. How big? Not big enough to reduce worldwide demand to 1m watches a year and bring back hot models to display cases at ADs. Those days are gone.

My crystal ball theory, for what it's worth.

[shipitfresh]

Originally Posted by ttomczak

This is so not true. I guarantee I’m not a VVIP, yet my AD called me last May(2021) and offered me a black 116500.

He took care of a watch enthusiast, not a vvip or flipper.

I was offered a 116500 by my favorite AD sales person because they were comfortable I would not flip. Regardless, I turned it down because I already have a chrono that I like.

BTW, I'm not a vvip either. Purchased (and still have) 3 watches over the last 8 years.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Rolexken

Make it 5 years and if you need to sell it you have to sell to the AD…

When you buy something it becomes yours, yours to do with as you see fit.

That beautiful new Rolex you bought today from the AD could in theory be put on a bench in your garage when you got it home and smashed with a hammer, whilst we would think you mad there is nothing we could do about it as it is your watch.

The same applies if you decide to sell the watch, once you have bought the watch if you want to sell it to A.N.Other the same day there is nothing anyone can do to stop you.

It is your property.

The AD may if they got to hear about it refuse to sell you any more Rolex watches or any goods at all but they cannot stop you selling your property.

Only if you were to lease the watch (similar to leasing a car with a bubble payment at the end) could the AD get you to sign a piece of paper stating that you could not sell the watch, and even then I doubt if the law would do much if you sold the watch and paid the finance off.

We all get very hot under the collar about stopping flippers and rightly so, but we live in a society that works on the basis of supply and demand, I have it - you want it - what are you going to give me for it? The harder the item is to get the higher the price will go.

[inadeje]

Rolex does not police the end user. Rolex sells to approved resellers and washes its hands at that point. Some ADs, particularly the large chains, are those who do police the buyers, in attempt to control their merchandise and eventual untrustworthy buyers (flippers)

[joli160]

Rolex facilitate the flippers and secondary market by deleting the name on the card. Obviously they like to ride the current situation as long as they can.
Total logic, never in the history has the brand been as strong as it is nowadays.

[RKunz]

Approximately 5 years ago the top two or three Watch manufacturers started “drying up” the discounted merchandise online. They are a luxury product and discounting says “the watch isn’t worth MSRP”. Next distribution was reduced and the big European retails entered the US market with an agreement with the watch companies. They have very no problem with their watches selling over list price online. The ADs screen clients but honestly it’s nearly impossible to weed out flippers. It became a mania. Stores can get 30 flippers a day walking in. Phone calls from flippers all day long. Some customers come in twice a day. ADs are caught in weird position. Business is good $$$ but pressure from all angles. It’s not a fun business anymore.

[Chewbacca]

Rolex doesn’t care.

If it did they could simply offer to sell online and pick at any AD when available.

It’s sophisticated Swiss manufacturing with a bodega mom & pop retail operation at the same time.

[dtwer]

Rolex is in the business of making and selling watches, not enforcing socialized watch distribution or Big Brother surveillance. It's curious why people keep harping on this and expecting them to.

So say Rolex could devise a scheme to rid the market of all secondary sellers, and the demand still exceeded supply. Then what? Should they be expected to start rationing the number of Rolex people could buy, so that "other can get it whenever they want it?"