Official Rolex Certified Pre-Owned Announcement - 1st Dec

[harrist8]

Originally Posted by Aventura

I don't think that official Rolex dealers currently sell preowned watches at prices higher than the list prices of the new ones. (At least in the same place where they sell the new ones... maybe it could be in another...) Let me clarify. I don't think I said, it's not that I'm sure but I'll try to check it in my city.

Not all of them, but some do. Most ADs aren’t in the pre-owned watch game, whether it be Rolex or any other brand. But there are plenty that are. Bucherer is a big name that is, but other local ADs do this as well. A local AD near me has a huge pre-owned section in their store. They specialize in Rolex, but have plenty of other pre-owned brands as well. The past couple of years if you go in and look at the Rolex counter, they will happily tell you there are none available for sell and the wait list is 1-2 years, but hey if you walk over to this case with me we have plenty of good pre-owned for sale. And of course they are market price. The difference between them and a grey is they don’t typically have current references for sale. You can’t go in and get a BNIB 124060, but you can get a 114060 or a earlier 5 digit model.

I don’t see how this CPO program will change anything for them. Sure they will start offering certified watches, likely at a premium to the other ones. But their pre-owned prices as a brick and mortar AD were already higher than most trusted sellers on this forum, other than the really big ones like DavidSW.

[redtigers]

Originally Posted by rambo99

yes, but at a huge premium.

Completely agree but I suspect pricing is not part of the prime objective of ensuring authentic watches are sold.

Frankly it's much easier/cleaner for a manufacture to focus on authenticity vs. setting price controls/determining the secondary market.

[One&done]

Originally Posted by harrist8

Not all of them, but some do. Most ADs aren’t in the pre-owned watch game, whether it be Rolex or any other brand. But there are plenty that are. Bucherer is a big name that is, but other local ADs do this as well. A local AD near me has a huge pre-owned section in their store. They specialize in Rolex, but have plenty of other pre-owned brands as well. The past couple of years if you go in and look at the Rolex counter, they will happily tell you there are none available for sell and the wait list is 1-2 years, but hey if you walk over to this case with me we have plenty of good pre-owned for sale. And of course they are market price. The difference between them and a grey is they don’t typically have current references for sale. You can’t go in and get a BNIB 124060, but you can get a 114060 or a earlier 5 digit model.

I don’t see how this CPO program will change anything for them. Sure they will start offering certified watches, likely at a premium to the other ones. But their pre-owned prices as a brick and mortar AD were already higher than most trusted sellers on this forum, other than the really big ones like DavidSW.

That is how most ADs I know operate. They have their own CPO program and therefore this new bit of marketing will not change the substance of their pre-owned operations.

However, the optics will change surely. One assumes that ADs who sign up for the cream coloured tags will be permitted to display pre-owned Rolex in the Rolex display cabinets, rather than in the naughty corner. Cosmetically (and this whole ‘new’ CPO’ program is purely cosmetic after all) this will be a welcome change; no more empty display cabinets?

[kangpin]

For those saying the margin for a CPO should be the same as the margin for a new piece, I disagree. The high margin for a new piece is to subsidize the AD for the risk they take in stocking all the unpopular Rolex models. The CPO is completely different and the ADs can choose what inventory they want to keep for CPO. My guess is they will be competitive to greys in paying market value for hot stuff, and charge the end customer a 25-45% mark up knowing they will pay it for peace of mind.

[bobernet]

Originally Posted by kangpin

For those saying the margin for a CPO should be the same as the margin for a new piece, I disagree. The high margin for a new piece is to subsidize the AD for the risk they take in stocking all the unpopular Rolex models. The CPO is completely different and the ADs can choose what inventory they want to keep for CPO. My guess is they will be competitive to greys in paying market value for hot stuff, and charge the end customer a 25-45% mark up knowing they will pay it for peace of mind.

Any familiarity with the car business? Ever been to a wholesale auto auction?

Dealers make significantly more margin on used cars vs new. No reason to believe watches won’t be the same.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

No AD's that weren't already selling pre-owned will start selling CPO.

That's a very bold statement - taking bets?

[MrBourne]

No reason not to. Now with CPO you have incentive to dangle to get best models from owners.

[PO 2500D]

The prices they are advertising on bucherer are barking, £23.5k for a hulk when WF are at 19k, Rolex have suddenly made the greys look like charities.

[Porkbelli]

Originally Posted by MangoTree1

In switzerland we have hundreds of (small) watch&watch parts manufacturers with all the know-how you need to do so. As most of you didnt believe the CPO rumors here in the forum when they appeared in february you dont have to do so now. Time will tell. End of story!

Hi, MangoTree. I would like to believe you. And I agree the same folks who didn’t believe other posters in and around Switzerland earlier in the year regarding the VTNR and CPO will always be doubters. Do you have any other info about these super cloners? There was thread earlier this year by someone who had dinner with some Rolex bigwigs who mentioned several ways to fight clones such as blockchain etc. to confirm authenticity.

Originally Posted by whatsthetime?

Actually, you can read TRF without joining, so you should think twice before calling anyone a dummy.

Correct; you don’t need to register to see posts and pictures for majority of threads.

[oldman2005]

Ferrari ADs have been doing this for years, they cannot survive on selling a small number of Ferrari allocated to to them so most of the Ferrari you see at the dealer showrooms are 2nd-hand cars. For the customers to get on the _list_ for new high demands Ferrari, they have to build relationship buy buying a bunch of high priced used cars on the lot. The thing is Ferrari really build small number of car unlike Rolex which mass produced a million watches per year. AD can also has service and part departments just like any car dealers to increase their revenues.

"Rolex Certified Pre-owned watch" is how Rolex get the a piece of pie that grey dealers have been enjoyed. These used watches will be more desirable and higher priced as they will have a Rolex plastic card guarantee their authenticity and working condition.

Basically new game you have to play if you're into Rolex. Also you already own a good collection of Rolex, AD could be a good safe place to dump your collection.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by Porkbelli

Hi, MangoTree. I would like to believe you. And I agree the same folks who didn’t believe other posters in and around Switzerland earlier in the year regarding the VTNR and CPO will always be doubters. Do you have any other info about these super cloners? There was thread earlier this year by someone who had dinner with some Rolex bigwigs who mentioned several ways to fight clones such as blockchain etc. to confirm authenticity.


Correct; you don’t need to register to see posts and pictures for majority of threads.

those super clone thing is just bullshit, I don't think any competent grey dealers would fail to recognize a full set rolex is not authentic after careful examination.

[amh]

The CPO program is going to make Grey prices look like a great deal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqHvmEn_LJk

Best analysis I've seen so far:

The Rolex certified pre owned is designed to get the frequent authorized dealer visitors (a.k.a. aD Dwellers) to sell their AD purchased Rolex to the AD (at low price) so they can get a promise of a “relationship” with the AD. The new Rolex models will still be sold to “special clients” then flipped grey dealers. The flippers are an essential component for ADs to empty the store of rubbish (ladies watches, jewelry). The refurbished watches will be sold at a mind numbing profit to the authorized dealership dwellers. It’s all about the profit of the ADs and the grey dealers are their essential way to get rid of the unwanted Cellini.

It's just another way to build that 'relation$hip'

[QuelleHeureEstIl]

Originally Posted by amh

The CPO program is going to make Grey prices look like a great deal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqHvmEn_LJk

Best analysis I've seen so far:


It's just another way to build that 'relation$hip'

This must be a shift of strategy. Because everytime I went to Bucherer CPO (pre-Rolex CPO) in Geneva and I am local and Swiss, it was clear that there would be no bump in the waitlist.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by rambo99

those super clone thing is just bullshit, I don't think any competent grey dealers would fail to recognize a full set rolex is not authentic after careful examination.

Not only that, the “super clone” would be a great misinformation campaign to kick off the Rolex CPO to start a new narrative of why buying a CPO Rolex is “safer”.

[amh]

Originally Posted by QuelleHeureEstIl

This must be a shift of strategy. Because everytime I went to Bucherer CPO (pre-Rolex CPO) in Geneva and I am local and Swiss, it was clear that there would be no bump in the waitlist.

Here in the USA ADs are very clear: Spend XX number of dollars and you'll be at the top of the li$t

[Edfrozen]

The CPO program is designed for watches 3 years and older .

[subtona]

Originally Posted by amh

The CPO program is going to make Grey prices look like a great deal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqHvmEn_LJk

Best analysis I've seen so far:


It's just another way to build that 'relation$hip'

Thanks for link. That was enjoyable

[MrBourne]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Ferrari ADs have been doing this for years, they cannot survive on selling a small number of Ferrari allocated to to them so most of the Ferrari you see at the dealer showrooms are 2nd-hand cars. For the customers to get on the _list_ for new high demands Ferrari, they have to build relationship buy buying a bunch of high priced used cars on the lot. The thing is Ferrari really build small number of car unlike Rolex which mass produced a million watches per year. AD can also has service and part departments just like any car dealers to increase their revenues.

"Rolex Certified Pre-owned watch" is how Rolex get the a piece of pie that grey dealers have been enjoyed. These used watches will be more desirable and higher priced as they will have a Rolex plastic card guarantee their authenticity and working condition.

Basically new game you have to play if you're into Rolex. Also you already own a good collection of Rolex, AD could be a good safe place to dump your collection.

Spot on. Porsche same with their limited models (GT models, speedster). Want one? Be a big slender and have one to trade back to us. Boom: allocation.

[QuelleHeureEstIl]

Originally Posted by amh

Here in the USA ADs are very clear: Spend XX number of dollars and you'll be at the top of the li$t

Actually, my issue was the following: I sell my current Rolex to CPO, I could get money or credits. But they would not bump my name and could not guarantee that I would get what I wanted as I was only on a wish list (vs wait list).

So:
1) I was -1 watch from my collection
2) I sold it for less than with greys
3) I was not sure to get a watch (not even speak about when...)

Current CPO for *new* Rolex customers (not selling one watch) is a way to make money on people being on wishlist. This is Genius!

[Gebbeth]

Originally Posted by MrBourne

Spot on. Porsche same with their limited models (GT models, speedster). Want one? Be a big slender and have one to trade back to us. Boom: allocation.

The issue here though is that for Porsche and Ferrari, once you get the used car back, you can resell them at a markup because no one wants to buy a used Porsche or Ferrari from some used car lot. All potential buyers of used cars like these will go to a Porsche or Ferrari dealer to get one and pay those prices.

This is why they can use these as allocation tools.

But there are already a 100 or so reputable grey market watch sellers that will guaranty authenticity and have watchmakers and repair facilities on hand that will sell you a used Rolex at significantly lower prices than the CPO AD.

So how will the ADs unload overpriced used Rolexes? They can only hold so much used inventory before it piles up. They will have to cut prices to meet grey market prices to be competitive, no?

The only way this works is if the AD CPOs severely underprice their repurchase offer with a guaranty that they will be first in line for the "real" Rolex they "really want."

How long will that last if it still takes 3 years to get your grail watch (because new watch supply is still constrained) and you can get a couple of thousand dollars more selling your watch to another grey market dealer now?

How do you get "new" Rolex customers if everything is tied up with existing customers?

Wait, this just sounds like the status quo.

[QuelleHeureEstIl]

Originally Posted by MrBourne

Spot on. Porsche same with their limited models (GT models, speedster). Want one? Be a big slender and have one to trade back to us. Boom: allocation.

Rolex cannot be compared to Porsche but more to BMW, Audi or Mercedes-Benz.

GT models, speedster are comparable to out of catalogue or gem-set pieces.

[MrBourne]

Originally Posted by QuelleHeureEstIl

Actually, my issue was the following: I sell my current Rolex to CPO, I could get money or credits. But they would not bump my name and could not guarantee that I would get what I wanted as I was only on a wish list (vs wait list).

So:
1) I was -1 watch from my collection
2) I sold it for less than with greys
3) I was not sure to get a watch (not even speak about when...)

Current CPO for *new* customers is a way to make money on people being on wishlist. This is Genius!

This will evolve. If you have hot model, the currency will certainly be allocation. If it’s a 36 datejust, maybe not.

[QuelleHeureEstIl]

Originally Posted by MrBourne

This will evolve. If you have hot model, the currency will certainly be allocation. If it’s a 36 datejust, maybe not.

I wanted to sell one of my SS GMT2 (fullset original owner) during the hot period so it was an interesting watch... I think... :) With their answers I didn't even tried to have it appraised. :(

[RolexBHR]

Local auction guy just posted a few pics of a CPO GMT his friend just purchased. The watch includes both the original and CPO cards. He says he is pretty sure the original card was a 2020 issue but surprisingly dated as a 2019 watch. Something shady going on?

[rambo99]

the new style NFC green warranty card was only released on Q4 2020!

[Gebbeth]

Originally Posted by RolexBHR

Local auction guy just posted a few pics of a CPO GMT his friend just purchased. The watch includes both the original and CPO cards. He says he is pretty sure the original card was a 2020 issue but surprisingly dated as a 2019 watch. Something shady going on?

Well that's weird. New style warranty card with a date that predates the use of the new warranty card.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

Well that's weird. New style warranty card with a date that predates the use of the new warranty card.

should be a super clone warranty card, lol!

[77T]

Originally Posted by RolexBHR

Local auction guy just posted a few pics of a CPO GMT his friend just purchased. The watch includes both the original and CPO cards. He says he is pretty sure the original card was a 2020 issue but surprisingly dated as a 2019 watch. Something shady going on?

Thanks for sharing this - gives an idea of what a CPO kit should look like. I’m guessing CPO’s will be showing up here in TRF listings soon.

Originally Posted by rambo99

the new style NFC green warranty card was only released on Q4 2020!

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

Well that's weird. New style warranty card with a date that predates the use of the new warranty card.

Is it possible some boutiques in Switzerland began using the new style card before the general use of them globally?

We would only know if a buyer in the Summer of 2019 had tried to sell it onward somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[RolexBHR]

Originally Posted by 77T

Thanks for sharing this - gives an idea of what a CPO kit should look like. I’m guessing CPO’s will be showing up here in TRF listings soon.







Is it possible some boutiques in Switzerland began using the new style card before the general use of them globally?

We would only know if a buyer in the Summer of 2019 had tried to sell it onward somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I forgot to mention, what he also said was the watch was brand new, they actually removed the stickers before giving him the watch. So he is guessing that the watch is new unsold 2020/21 model that they had and they just dated the original card to make it more than three years old not realsing that card was not available back then.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by RolexBHR

I forgot to mention, what he also said was the watch was brand new, they actually removed the stickers before giving him the watch. So he is guessing that the watch is new unsold 2020/21 model that they had and they just dated the original card to make it more than three years old not realsing that card was not available back then.

that means AD is allowed to sell brand new rolex watch as CPO?