Reality check on Red Sub dial

[hmtyrant]

Hi -
I'm looking at purchasing a Red Sub. Owner claims Rolex expert has looked it over and it is legit.

I believe the dial is fake, see attached images. Owner claims dials could have legit discrepancies that explain the issue I'm seeing and refuses to acknowledge the dial is fake.

The watch they are selling. See image.

Screen-Shot-2023-02-03-at-9.21.52-AM.jpg

I compared this dial to the DRSD article dials that seem to be the bible for verifying these things. I found some major issues in the "PERPETUAL" text not aligning correctly under the ROLEX text. See image

Screen-Shot-2023-02-02-at-12.07.04-PM.jpg

Is it possible they are right and I am wrong...they have not given me any evidence that support their claim of dials having deviations in text.

I just need a reality check here from you guys.

[swaini3]

You're right and they're wrong. The bottom part does not match any of the known dials either.

[hmtyrant]

Thank you for validating. This guy is also trying to sell this on ebay with the authenticity guarantee. I really hope it gets caught and sent back and they learn their lesson.

[springer]

The coronet is not correct and the ROLEX font is not correct also.

The seller is incorrect.

[swaini3]

You're welcome. He mentions it in the description. Who knows what the 'Authenticity Guarantee' would say in this case.... He should have put pictures of the engravings atleast too.

[hmtyrant]

Right, I feel like he is not really stating clearly that it could be a fake dial. He says: "THERE HAS BEEN DISCUSSION REGARDING THE DIAL. TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE THE DIAL IS ORIGINAL BUT WAS RE-LUMED, PROBABLY SOMETIME IN THE 80’S ACCORDING TO THE ROLEX TECHNICIAN THAT INSPECTED IT. PLEASE VIEW AND BE THE FINAL JUDGE."

It seems like when you are trying to sell a "Red" Sub this would be a really important aspect to make clear. Also even with the evidence I showed him he is in denial.

[1675-David]

don't like the dial even without the huge chipping damage, don't like the hands either

[cts]

Date not magnified enough also…

[GGGMT]

Don’t waste time messing with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1665fan]

Reminds me of the fakes that guy in Canada would always sell on ebay

[scooba]

Junk !

[hmtyrant]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Reminds me of the fakes that guy in Canada would always sell on ebay

What guy in Canada, still on eBay?

[zapokee]

I would run a mile from a dealer who offers a guarantee of authenticity and then says "Please view it and be the final judge" to potential buyers.

We're paying for their expertise. And a guarantee of authenticity.

[springer]

[QUOTE=zapokee;12602735]I would run a mile from a dealer who offers a guarantee of authenticity and then says "Please view it and be the final judge" to potential buyers.

We're paying for their expertise. And a guarantee of authenticity.[/QUOTE]

If you are relying on "dealer expertise" for a guarantee of authenticity, for me, especially on ebay, that is a recipe for failure. It's like putting the wolf in the hen house to watch the hens.

We all see misrepresented watches posted here on this forum and elsewhere by many misinformed or unscrupulous dealers - very few which are experts. And, relying on someone selling a watch on ebay or anywhere for that matter, to give a fair and honest description doesn't happen very often based on my experience.

Ebay has a buyer protection plan and conducts watch exams on the sales by supposed experts which I have yet to hear many positive reviews for.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by springer

...If you are relying on "dealer expertise" for a guarantee of authenticity, for me, especially on ebay, that is a recipe for failure. It's like putting the wolf in the hen house to watch the hens...

Absolutely right. That's what I was trying to express, perhaps badly.

There's a very small circle of knowledgable sellers whom I'd trust implicitly. You're among them.

[TuRo]

Every bit of the font is off - As fake dials go, it's 3 out of 10. Shame on the dealer, who should have a duty of care as a professional seller, in my opinion, on objective things like authenticity - a few don't clearly.