Advice on GMT

[Bsp32]

Hi all,
I am trying to decide on a GMT-II from 2005-07 with 3185 movement with box and papers or a 2008 with 3186 but no Box and papers? Assuming the price is roughly the same, which would you go for and why?
Thanks!

[Calatrava r]

As many say here, "Box and papers, bro." I would first look to see if you like the older watch better from a build/design/collectability standpoint. If no preference, I would then look to the condition of each. All things still be equal, I then would opt for the complete set.

[piratfisk]

If it were me & my money, my first instinct is to say B&P > no B&P.

In all actuality, if I were going to daily wear this watch with no intention of reselling it, then I'd take the 3186 movement over the --85 almost ten times out of ten. UNLESS the older watch is in REMARKABLY better condition.

[Rollei35]

Box and paper don’t matter too much for old watches like those.
When you resell either one, the price isn’t going to be affected significantly with and without box and paper.
Go with the one you like and having better condition. Forget about box and paper

[Bsp32]

We all agree condition matters most. Seems like the field is a bit split on the B&P. In the photo of the 2008, the case is engraved 16710 not 16710T
Does that surprise anyone or suggest it might not be legit? I thought all late Z and M series GMT-IIs had a T designation for transition model.

[996marty]

Buy the best one condition wise if they are similar go for the box and papers. I’m sure you’ll love it they are brilliant watches

[watchnwine]

I'm sure you know this but a 3186 with a "stick" dial (where the roman numerals are simple lines instead of II) is desirable and usually trades at a premium (maybe in the $2,000ish range). I'd say papers for a watch in that Neo-vintage era probably ads somewhere in the $1,000 range in terms of value. If the watches were identical, I think the 3186 would be worth slightly more and is a little more collectable. For me, I value the condition the highest and papers second... I'm not too caught up in chasing a 3186.

[WatchSmith]

The 3185 is a very solid movement and there's no reason not to buy it. The hour hand jumper was improved in the 3186 but that's about it. I have two 3185s that are absolutely excellent.

[ltmgeller]

I'd go with the full set

[karleone]

I would go with the one that is in best condition. Sharp case, crownguards, orignal Rolex V brushing on lugs, chamfers / bevels. If unpolished even better

[rmagoo57]

Originally Posted by karleone

I would go with the one that is in best condition. Sharp case, crownguards, orignal Rolex V brushing on lugs, chamfers / bevels. If unpolished even better

This but if in similar condition, go for the 3186. It is a rare reference. You can get it serviced for "papers" and buy a box for it down the road. Let us know what you decide!

[Ontime]

If the price is the same, i would go for the GMT-II from 2005-07 with the 3185 movement and box and papers. having a box and papers adds value and authenticity to the watch.

[Bartolo]

Box and papers add value, but you pay more up front. On a watch of that age, or older, I believe it's a wash.

I would focus way more on condition.

[Billyrolls]

Originally Posted by rmagoo57

This but if in similar condition, go for the 3186. It is a rare reference. You can get it serviced for "papers" and buy a box for it down the road. :

This ^

[Mario3252]

Welcome to the Forum

[Michael1968]

Originally Posted by ltmgeller

i'd go with the full set

+1

[ons2101]

Go with the watch in better condition or the one you just like more

Honestly for either one I’d buy it and then give it to RSC for service as it’s 15-20 years old and then you can get a 2023 Rolex card for authenticity and documentation etc …and wear it everyday


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[brandrea]

Welcome to the forum.

Condition being equal I’d go with the full set

[Colorado_kid]

Depends on what you want to do with it. Daily wear it with no intention to sell it? Or put it in the watch box and keep for years to sell later?
If it was going to be a daily, I wouldn’t care as much about paperwork.
I try to keep all my watches but I know others like to trade around for fun.
In that case, go with the full set.


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[LC23]

newer one.

[zi464]

Same price and condition ofc go for B&P

[dba]

I just got a D serial GMT, with box and papers. I don't think I'll ever sell it, but personally, it was important to have the B&P.

[Spoonage]

For me Condition > B&P... Sure you'll hear many say B&P bro, but you'll also hear people say you don't wear the B&P you wear the watch. Buy the best condition watch you can with the money. Plus a watch that old the paper is no longer relevant since the warranty is expired. A recorded new service would be more beneficial. Only time B&P are important is a truly collector piece.

With that being said B&P are important to me which is why I've only bought new from an AD. But last time I even looked at the B&P was when I was packing for my move from IL to CA, and before that was probably when I bought the watch. The only reason why it's important to me is because these watches are getting gifted to my daughters at some point.

The only pre-owned watch I or my wife have purchased was a Tudor Sub 79090 which I bought head only because the condition was good in the price I wanted to pay. Bracelet, B&P would have pushed it outside what I wanted to pay and at the time I was anti-bracelet (preferred straps).

[Stevec14]

Go with the watch in the best condition. Assuming the age is roughly the same, it will need a service eventually which will be as good as the original papers (if not better). Obvs if it comes with all the bits, all the better.

Movement wise I would not personally give that much priority. Both are equally great. My 2003 works just fine.

Have you thought about an early 2000’s with holes and SEL? For me that’s the sweet spot for these - better bracelet and easy changes to jubilee etc.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Bsp32

We all agree condition matters most. Seems like the field is a bit split on the B&P. In the photo of the 2008, the case is engraved 16710 not 16710T
Does that surprise anyone or suggest it might not be legit? I thought all late Z and M series GMT-IIs had a T designation for transition model.

The T designation means no holes through the lugs.

Trous borgnes - blind hole.

My choice would be the 3186 movement if conditions were similar.

I would not be concerned about papers because 3186 is stamped on the movement.

[Subb]

If the price is the same, I'd go for the GMT-II from 2005-07 with the box and papers. Having the box and papers adds to the overall value and authenticity of the watch.

[Normunds]

I'd go with one that is in better shape. Never cared about box&papers in my life, condition is way more important.

[rgwarden]

Originally Posted by WatchSmith

The 3185 is a very solid movement and there's no reason not to buy it. The hour hand jumper was improved in the 3186 but that's about it. I have two 3185s that are absolutely excellent.

I actually like that slight hour jump on the 3185. You can’t go wrong with either OP but i like to have box and papers if I’m buying second hand.

[SearChart]

Condition is everything.

Personally I prefer the 3185 movement because the GMT mechanism hardly wears out, whereas the 3186 will always shred its stud/post to bits after a couple of years.

The 3185 might have more gear play but I do not consider the 86 to be an upgrade.
They definitely improved the design on the later 3285 though, that GMT mechanism seems rock solid so far.

[Stan Cooper]

My P-serial 22 year old 16710 with the 3185 caliber movement has performed flawlessly since new. I don't consider the 3186 a significant improvement.