cartier santos vs.rolex sub with date

[davor]

somebody wrote a review im sure of it...so do share,please...
would like to see a comparison of this "two"(cause there is only one watch in my book) giants...

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by davor

somebody wrote a review im sure of it...so do share,please...
would like to see a comparison of this "two"(cause there is only one watch in my book) giants...

While they are both very good watches, they are miles apart in looks and functionality. I don't think the two are really comparable.

JJ

[Goodwatch]

Well, this is all off the top of my head as I owned them both, the Cartier Santos Dumont Carré in stainless steel and the Rolex Submariner Date in stainless steel.

The Cartier was introduced in 1979. It is a modernized version of the watch Louis Cartier made for his Brazilian aviator friend Alberto Santos-Dumont. He complained that it was very difficult to get his watch from the pocket of his leather jacket with gloves and all and the watch Cartier gave him was one that could be strapped around the wrist. But this modern version scores low on authenticity. The finish, as I perceived it, is above par. The case is of a two piece design, there is no separate case back but instead the bezel with the crystal is attached to the case with screws. The back and bezel are polished to a high gloss; the rest of the case is matt (1979 edition). The bracelet is of a very special design, each link interlocks with the previous link instead of pins that are used. Polished screws keep the links in place, giving a very mechanical effect. The clasp is a folding butterfly variation, the small visible part (matt, as the bracelet) adorned with a polished double C (this is a separate part). The winding crown is octagonal, relatively large and placed between two shoulders. It is adorned with a blue gemstone. The watch came in the famous red Cartier box, with white velvet lining.

The dial is in characteristic and traditional white enameled Cartier style with black Roman numerals. Is has a small date window at 3 ‘o clock and the thin leg of the V at 7 ‘o clock reads ‘Cartier’ in micro print. This is an attempt to foil counterfeiters. The watch has an automatic ETA movement but I don’t know the type. It has no chronometer specifications but what I still remember of it, that it was as accurate as the Rolex. It also has no depth rating but is at least swim proof (I tried it out).

This particular model, as the two tone and full gold models are no longer produced. A very big premium is the life-time guarantee! My brother has this watch now and is has been overhauled in the factory at least 4 times. Upon return, the watch is wrapped in blue plastic and looks completely like new. The service includes the shipping costs as well. Cartier dropped this service years ago but still honor the requests of those who have the special, credit card like, pass that came with the watch.

Pros: good everyday watch, suitable for both regular and formal occasions, well known brand name, excellent finish and (when purchased back in 1980) life time guarantee.

Cons: ‘plain ETA’ movement (says nothing however, about quality and accuracy), no depth rating, unsure resale value, a fashion watch to some.
You can find many Sub Date reviews here to make the comparison. I prefer the Sub but that is purely personal.

[padi56]

Great post Frans and yes agree that Cartier now is more like a fashion brand now, but like a few of there watches.

[Prince]

I have this Cartier classic tank - bought it (and a matching one for my wife) in 1981 brand new:



I have always liked it, even though it is smaller, and is appropriate only for dress wear (IMHO).

[Goldsplinter]

Originally Posted by Prince

I have this Cartier classic tank - bought it (and a matching one for my wife) in 1981 brand new:



I have always liked it, even though it is smaller, and is appropriate only for dress wear (IMHO).

Doesn't have a seconds hands does it?

I prefer my watches to have the second-hand... it's like a part of me is missing if it's not there...

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by Prince

I have this Cartier classic tank - bought it (and a matching one for my wife) in 1981 brand new:



I have always liked it, even though it is smaller, and is appropriate only for dress wear (IMHO).

WHAAAAAAAAAT? I had exactly the same watch! The case is goldplated silver. Tank Vermeil it is called. My dealer swapped the strap for a nice aligator one. Is this the quartz one?

[davor]

thanks guys

[Prince]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

WHAAAAAAAAAT? I had exactly the same watch! The case is goldplated silver. Tank Vermeil it is called. My dealer swapped the strap for a nice aligator one. Is this the quartz one?

Yes, you mentioned that once in a conversation we had about your Santos, Frans. No, it is NOT quartz (NTTAWWT), but manual wind. Very accurate, actually, but obviously not COSC standards...

[Prince]

Originally Posted by Goldsplinter

Doesn't have a seconds hands does it?

No, it doesn't have a second hand. I have actually never missed that feature on this particular watch.

[TARDIS]

Cartier seem to be favoured by men who are associated with the Arts. Painters, interior home designers, fashion moguls and the like. I saw one guy on TV wearing his on his shirt sleeve. Odd. Women tend to go for them.

I like this one, I think its bigger than the tank range...

[JJ Irani]

Now that's an amazingly stunning picture, Steve!! WOW!!

[Goldsplinter]

^ I dig the crown!

[JJ Irani]

I like the Cartier inscription on the Roman VII.

[President]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

I like the Cartier inscription on the Roman VII.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I like it (the watch).

[fat-sam]

when we were growing up it was more often a man would have a rolex and a woman a cartier(or at leat aspire to have one) my wife said she would prefer an ebel or rolex- i need to start saving!

[Prince]

Originally Posted by fat-sam

...my wife said she would prefer an ebel or rolex- i need to start saving!

Yes. Yes, you do!!!

[Alex Stylianou]

Cheers

[Alex Stylianou]

oh yeah and good review

[greenfan]

The Santos 100 is a great watch. I even tried the Santos Cronograph, but it was way too big for my wrist ! Must be 45mm. But it's a wonderful watch.



got the picture from a site...

[ofelas]

Thanks for the great info, all!

[sammy911]

My wife wanted a Cartier Roadster instead of a Rolex. It is a nice watch but does nothing for me. I love my Ex II. No comparison if you ask me..but as long as she is happy with it

[topher]

I bought a Cartier Tank Francaise. (TT, large, automatic) Very nice watch, incredible finish on the bracelet, etc. Ended up giving it to my wife when she couldn't find a watch she liked. I bought a GMT II, TT for myself. We are both happy.

[ofelas]

"tank francais"?
1 forward gear & 3 reverse gears? ;-)

[bezelman]

the santos 100 is a beautiful watch, but it doesn't come close to the sub

[Prince]

Originally Posted by bezelman

the santos 100 is a beautiful watch, but it doesn't come close to the sub

True, but I'm not sure it was ever designed to compete with the Rolex Submariner. An entirely different animal, just like my Tank...

[Pastor]

I have a large automatic Tank Francaise. It is a beautiful watch and very well built, sold as a rock. Of course I ended up giving it to my wife. Had to get myself a new Rolex.

[krlyuzh]

I didn't really read too many responces in this thread, BUT.

You really can't compare the 2 watches, honestly. Comparing the two are like comparing a speed boat to a family van (not putting Rolex or the Cartier in either place), in other words, completely unrelated. Though my knowledge of Rolex is up to standards, i'm sure someone already replied in this thread about the sub. I mean it's a classic, its probably one of the most recognizable watches in the world. It looks awesome, can be worn as dressy as well as sporty watch. As far as technical goes: It's an mechanical movement watch, it has significally higher water resistance than the Santos (Santos 100 comes in both quartz and automatic movement). Rolex uses the 902L steel, which supposed to be strongest stainless steel money can buy, with more durability towards wear and chemicals. You're looking at ~$5500 to spend on SS Sub with date, around 7900 for steel and gold, 10000 for the steel and gold with silver dial and diamonds markers, etc. The small Santos 100 will be around ~3800 but the price goes up as you choose a bigger model, precious metals added, chronograph, diamonds, etc. Cartier, unlike MOST other watch brands out there are about 70% to 30% ladies and men's watches accordingly. They tend to look more dressy, more 'romantic' (the make small, medium, large sizes in just about every model, so you can get matching watches with your sig other) The story behing Santos 100 is that its the oldest model in Cartier's collections that's still being produced today, thus the name Santos 100, it was 100 years old in 2004(if im not mistaken on the date). Also, of course you are looking at round shape watch vs square shape. Both are great watches as far as quality, looks, recognition goes. Honestly, if you like both, you will have to buy both or you will never be happy with either.

I might add that a service on a Rolex is at least $420 + tax + whatever else needs to be done for a standard overhaul which should be performed every 5-7 years. Cartier seems to be even more expensive with their ovehauls, their watches vary a lot, so I couldn't tell you even an approximate, don't remember when i had a Santos taken in. Once again, looks to me as if you like both, you will have to buy both to be happy. I do not have a personal choice because 2 watches are SO different. Hope this helps, if it doesn't confuse you even more hah.


Kirill

[davor]

Originally Posted by kirill

I didn't really read too many responces in this thread, BUT.

You really can't compare the 2 watches, honestly. Comparing the two are like comparing a speed boat to a family van (not putting Rolex or the Cartier in either place), in other words, completely unrelated. Though my knowledge of Rolex is up to standards, i'm sure someone already replied in this thread about the sub. I mean it's a classic, its probably one of the most recognizable watches in the world. It looks awesome, can be worn as dressy as well as sporty watch. As far as technical goes: It's an mechanical movement watch, it has significally higher water resistance than the Santos (Santos 100 comes in both quartz and automatic movement). Rolex uses the 902L steel, which supposed to be strongest stainless steel money can buy, with more durability towards wear and chemicals. You're looking at ~$5500 to spend on SS Sub with date, around 7900 for steel and gold, 10000 for the steel and gold with silver dial and diamonds markers, etc. The small Santos 100 will be around ~3800 but the price goes up as you choose a bigger model, precious metals added, chronograph, diamonds, etc. Cartier, unlike MOST other watch brands out there are about 70% to 30% ladies and men's watches accordingly. They tend to look more dressy, more 'romantic' (the make small, medium, large sizes in just about every model, so you can get matching watches with your sig other) The story behing Santos 100 is that its the oldest model in Cartier's collections that's still being produced today, thus the name Santos 100, it was 100 years old in 2004(if im not mistaken on the date). Also, of course you are looking at round shape watch vs square shape. Both are great watches as far as quality, looks, recognition goes. Honestly, if you like both, you will have to buy both or you will never be happy with either.

I might add that a service on a Rolex is at least $420 + tax + whatever else needs to be done for a standard overhaul which should be performed every 5-7 years. Cartier seems to be even more expensive with their ovehauls, their watches vary a lot, so I couldn't tell you even an approximate, don't remember when i had a Santos taken in. Once again, looks to me as if you like both, you will have to buy both to be happy. I do not have a personal choice because 2 watches are SO different. Hope this helps, if it doesn't confuse you even more hah.


Kirill

well my friend in ur "short" post u have really answered what i wanted to know...i know that u really cant compare the two watches but those little thing is what is interesting for me... i.e i know that a standard overhaul of a sub(rolex)costs 200 buck and thats without having to pay for the additional parts if something is broke,but what about the santos;rolex in their ss versions use 902L steel what about santos...and those kind of stuff thats what im after

thanks for shining a light on some of the questions that have been unanswered 4 a while now

[krlyuzh]

Yea, I'm sorry for the long post, but that's the only way i could try and explain what i had in my mind.

Now, to answering your new questions:

Rolex claims that they are the only watch company who uses the 902L for making a SS bracelet/case. So, to my knowledge, there is nothing 'special' about Cartier's stainless steel.

For the overhauls, its not $200, my friend, its $420 JUST for a standard overhaul on a Rolex. Certainly, the watch comes back looking and running and feeling brand new, but it is $420 every 5-7 years you have to drop, and prices go up, and that's without any parts replaced or any additional work done.

As far as Cartier goes, and please, do not quote me on this, a standard overhaul on a mechanical movement watch from them is $395. Again some models might be more expensive than others, and quartz movement might be less expensive, as it will just be a battery service, but it WILL need to be done more frequently as the battery life is about 2-3 years.

Now, I am getting these figures from my experience. I sent them all out to Rolex in NY and Cartier, not just an authorized watch maker, those MIGHT be cheaper, but it's more of a gamble. Rolex guarantees that if the watch is lost during shipment to you, or they break it for example, which does not ever happen, they will replace your watch with any watch of the same or lesser value.

Again, Santos has a lot of different routes you can go with. You can get the medium size, or the large, or the large chronograph. You can get it in SS, SS/18ky, or all 18 carat yellow or white gold, then, of course, you can cover it all in diamonds. Sky is limit. In SS Sub, well, you really can't do anything. Rolex is VERY VERY particular on what you can and cannot do. You can NEVER put a diamond bezel, per say, on SS ANYTHING, not even the stainless and gold models, ONLY the full precious metal models. I've seen some after marketers do it, but as soon as you send the watch to Rolex for overhaul, they will take that bezel off, charge you for replacing with proper and you'll be lucky to get your diamonds back.

Then comes in the whole 'romantic' approach with Cartier. Down the road you can get your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/whoever a matching Santos in small size. The only Professional series Rolex they make that will come close to looking like a Sub is the Yach-Master, they make it in Small, medium, large.

I would honestly say gor with the Rolex. I mean, its Rolex. Again, 90% of the people who will see it will recognize the watch. Though those who know at least a bit about watches will def recognize the Santos.