First vintage triple 6 Sea Dweller! Help please

[roadie1]

I've just acquired a 1988 SD triple 6! My first vintage (ish)
I have all paperwork and original receipt, links and booklet, box and the red hang tag. The watch case does not appear polished however, the case back engraving is hardly visible and the dial does not have Swiss made anywhere. Could this be a service dial? The hands and markers are a very light cream.
I'm thinking of having BobRidley service the watch. What do you guys think of this dial issue? Any other concerns? Is this somewhat desirable model?

Thanks in advance!

[marcello pisani]

No pictures ? No party !!

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

No pictures ? No party !!

How to post from iPhone?

[marcello pisani]

try Photobucket.com and create your own album

[roadie1]

Ok. I'll try to post pics tonight. The seller has found box and red hang tag. So I'll get it all together and post.
Thanks

[roadie1]

Here are some lousy iphone pics......

[roadie1]

Do you guys think the case back engraving can be restored? Is the dial a service replacement? Whats it worth? Ballpark?

Thanks!

[fusionstorm]

You'll need some clear, detailed closeups in order to ascertain what you truly have, as the perspectives are all skewed b/c of the photo angles you took. The blank caseback is troubling, the dial is also likely a non-Rolex manufactured replacement, and you have an earlier Submariner booklet that was no longer being printed years before 1988 (which actually means it's worth $150+ more than the correct booklet is). I'm also suspicious of your bezel insert, bezel and even the case.

Again, borrow or invest in a proper digital camera that takes decently clear macro closeups, and post those pics.......

[cruvon]

Think you will need better pictures for the guys here to tell for sure, maybe if you have a compact camera with macro function use that to take closeup dial pics.

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by fusionstorm

You'll need some clear, detailed closeups in order to ascertain what you truly have, as the perspectives are all skewed b/c of the photo angles you took. The blank caseback is troubling, the dial is also likely a non-Rolex manufactured replacement, and you have an earlier Submariner booklet that was no longer being printed years before 1988 (which actually means it's worth $150+ more than the correct booklet is). I'm also suspicious of your bezel insert, bezel and even the case.

Again, borrow or invest in a proper digital camera that takes decently clear macro closeups, and post those pics.......

Thanks for the info. I'll try to take better pics.
Btw the case back is not blank, it's just very faint due to what I assume is a bad polish job. I hope it can be restored. The case is has plenty of dings, dents and scratches.
What make you suspicious of the case and bezel?

Thanks again!

[drtooth73]

Do you have an option to return it?

[TattooedGQ]

I'm on the JDLR bandwagon.....possible frankenwatch? Hopefully better pics will help.

[ROGERB]

Originally Posted by roadie1

Here are some lousy iphone pics......

I have a bad feeling about this even with the out of focus pictures.... the shot of the SEL looks strange and the shot of the caseback showing the back of the same link is not good, that coupled with the caseback and the lack of "swiss" or "swiss made" at the bottom of the dial sez to me I hope you can return it
R

[marcello pisani]

we would certainly have much bigger pictures to be sure of something, but...
the lack of engravings in the outside of the back is not so uncommon in the very last 16660
( 1988-9 ).
the first two digits of the case number would be very helpful.

[marcello pisani]

some of the last 16660 have also a different style of engravings in the outside of the back ,
with different fonts and engravings really less deeper than the standard ones.
this means that after a couple of polishings they almost disappear ....

[Beelzy]

It looks to me like someone took the time to assemble all the bits for a fake watch.

There is a lot wrong with that watch. The case looks fake, the dial is definitely having issues and the endlinks are atrocious. This with fuzzy pics even.

[roadie1]

Thanks fellas. Not the warm and fuzzy way to start the weekend but I do appreciate the heads up.
I called the seller and got some additional history. Btw- I've known this guys for many years although not a close friend. Obviously.
He lost the bezel and sent it somewhere (AD he says) for a replacement. Then a few years later had the dial "refinished". He knows less Rolex watches than I do (if thats possible) I assume he got taken on the original dial with a crappy replacement and had a modern bezel installed. Don't know about the bracelet but it has the stamp 91530. Again, the case is stamped 16660 and has the faint engraving on the case back. Also when comparing it to my modern 16600 it does not appear to be a fake.
So it sounds like a frankenwatch. But for $2500 I don't mind spending a bit to bring it up to spec. I sent it to Ridley for an evaluation and should know the real damage next week. With that said, what do you guys think about the price?

[Clay]

If you are happy with the watch and what you've paid, that's all that matters....
I myself would have never purchased that watch regardless of price....
A gloss dial 666 is not a rare reference and there are plenty of them out there in excellent condition and at reasonable prices.
This watch seems to have far to many "issues" regardless of whether it's a fake or authentic to be considered.
You may indeed be able to find the parts necessary to get the watch back up to par, but at what cost? Not to mention the hassle involved in finding what you might need?
My advice, get your money back and find another example.
Just my two cents since you asked...

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by clay

if you are happy with the watch and what you've paid, that's all that matters....
I myself would have never purchased that watch regardless of price....
A gloss dial 666 is not a rare reference and there are plenty of them out there in excellent condition and at reasonable prices.
This watch seems to have far to many "issues" regardless of whether it's a fake or authentic to be considered.
You may indeed be able to find the parts necessary to get the watch back up to par, but at what cost? Not to mention the hassle involved in finding what you might need?
My advice, get your money back and find another example.
Just my two cents since you asked...

Well said.

[roadie1]

My watch has been with Bob Ridley for a week now and he has confirmed it to be authentic with the exception of the dial, bezel and of course insert. I'm trying to find a dial to match the hands. Any idea on the cost of a gloss dial for an 88?
Bob is going to service the watch and refinish the case, bracelett and repair the buckle. He didn't recommend touching the case back since the engraving is so shallow. Could a master engraver repair the engraving on the caseback? Would Rolex engrave it or just replace it? Do you guys think it is in good hands with Bob Ridley? He seems to have good reviews!

[Jagatai]

What clay said. Aside from the possible need for service imagine the time suck and hassle of trolling round the marketplace looking for authentic period correct parts.

Get your 2500 and start a fund for a great complete example. As recent events show boxes and papers can be cobbled together.

[Keeperoftime]

+1

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by Jagatai

What clay said. Aside from the possible need for service imagine the time suck and hassle of trolling round the marketplace looking for authentic period correct parts.

Get your 2500 and start a fund for a great complete example. As recent events show boxes and papers can be cobbled together.

Thanks for the advice. So a watch with a replacement dial and bezel, although all paperwork is in order, links, box booklets, red hang tag, is not considered a decent deal for $2500? The cheapest one I've scene is around $5500 and it had a replacement dial and the case was polished.
Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to understand This vintage market and thought 2500 for ANY SD was a sweet deal. Let alone th fact that I have original papers. Is it not?

[Jagatai]

I guess it's just the way I think. I look for top condition watches first and foremost.
I don't have the patience nor do I want to put a single dime on any watch, no matter the rarity if it's not in tip top period correct shape. If that means being offered a milsub in c condition with engravings barely visible even at 10k I would pass. I've done well I think.

And Punched papers boxes hang tags those things can be cobbled together.

[fusionstorm]

Correct dial will run you less than $500. Correct bezel/insert/tritium dot will run a slight bit more. Case back can be found, but haven't seen one priced in some time.

If you feel the guarantee paperwork is legit, be content with what you paid. You'll be slightly ahead after you factor in the Ridley service (very well respected in the industry) and cost of correct replacement parts. And you'll know that the watch was recently serviced by someone reputable........

[Clay]

You have to ask yourself what's more important....
A nice watch or nice paperwork???
Fake dial, fake bezel, fake insert and the case back engravings are barely visible....
And considering all of this, you have to ask yourself; How "original" is all of this paper work???
It's simply not a watch that most vintage fans would even consider, papers or not....
As I said, it's not a rare reference, why go through all the hassle???

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by Clay

You have to ask yourself what's more important....
A nice watch or nice paperwork???
Fake dial, fake bezel, fake insert and the case back engravings are barely visible....
And considering all of this, you have to ask yourself; How "original" is all of this paper work???
It's simply not a watch that most vintage fans would even consider, papers or not....
As I said, it's not a rare reference, why go through all the hassle???

Thanks for the help. I appreciate it!
Btw- the bezel is not a fake, but a replacement. The dial is not a fake, but has been ruined by a bad refinish. I confirmed this with Ridley. Also, the serial is legit according to Bob.
As for the paperwork, I've know the seller for many, many years and he's worn this SD since I've known him. There is no reason for me to think the papers are fake.
Thanks again. I'm just getting my feet wet in the world of vintage.

[Clay]

Originally Posted by roadie1

Thanks for the help. I appreciate it!
Btw- the bezel is not a fake, but a replacement. The dial is not a fake, but has been ruined by a bad refinish. I confirmed this with Ridley. Also, the serial is legit according to Bob.
As for the paperwork, I've know the seller for many, many years and he's worn this SD since I've known him. There is no reason for me to think the papers are fake.
Thanks again. I'm just getting my feet wet in the world of vintage.

Vintage pieces can get tricky....But it sounds like you're doing all the right things...
I hope it all works out...
Cheers,
C