Olympics vs. Cycling

[azguy]

If cycling is a dirty as it appears to be, does anyone think the Olympics are any cleaner......

I think they should leave Lance Armstrong alone and focus on today racers and making sure they are clean.

Someone would have to be crazy to think he never took anything, but it's history now, move on....just like baseball....

[lavaman]

then I guess i am crazy

[77T]

Originally Posted by azguy

If cycling is a dirty as it appears to be, does anyone think the Olympics are any cleaner......

Testing budgets are much higher in the Olympics so some sports are cleaner than in-between.

[kxux]

This may get heated quickly...

Interestingly enough today on my long run I listened to podcast - Legends of Triathlon where they interviewed Scott Molina. He talked about racing Lance when he was just getting into the sport. He was able to stay up with the best the whole swim, bike and over half point of run. Scott passed him at 8k mark of 10k run. Lance hanged tough and finished right next to Scott. Scott at that time was a legend in triathlon and Lance was just coming up.

Not sure if and what he was taking while cycling, but it is sure that he is one of the best athletes in he world.

Lance was speaking at our customer conference few months back and he is not only great athlete, but also amazing speaker and fundraiser for the Livestrong foundation. I very much admire the guy.

I was really bummed out when he got suspended from triathlon racing earlier this month. He would make Kona very exciting race with Macca coming back, Crowie defending his title and Raelert brothers racing there - stacked up field. Let's hope Lance gets this sorted out and can appear in Kona for the big show.

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by azguy

If cycling is a dirty as it appears to be, does anyone think the Olympics are any cleaner......

I think they should leave Lance Armstrong alone and focus on today racers and making sure they are clean.

Someone would have to be crazy to think he never took anything, but it's history now, move on....just like baseball....

Apparently the USADA that would like to rewrite history.

[kxux]

Guys just a reminder - cycling is in Olympics. I don't buy argument that cycling is dirty outside Olympics and clean in Olympics. Does not make much sense since he best guys and gals race for their countries.

[mtrunner]

Unfortunately there is no way Lance was clean. Doping has been a part of the sport for a very long time. Everyone was essentially using when Lance was riding. Most people who think Lance was clean have not followed the sport that closely.

I love the sport and hate the fact that the sport has been tainted with doping. I have a couple of very close friends who have rode in the Tour de France and actually two of those friends started the Tour today.

Unfortunately the Olympics are no better. There are a lot of athletes that have been busted over the years. In both the Olympics and Cycling you always question great performances now based on the amount of cheating in the past. Look at Marion Jones who pasted every single drug test and we later learned she was one of the biggest cheats ever. Runners are always getting popped for drug violations along with many other Olympic athletes. Most don't get caught at the Olympics but training leading up to the Olympics or afterwards.

[mtrunner]

Originally Posted by 77T

Testing budgets are much higher in the Olympics so some sports are cleaner than in-between.

Most likely athletes are not using AT the Olympics. The drugs help athletes train harder and more efficiently leading up to the Olympics and then they come off the cycles before the Olympics so they can pass the drug tests.

[Dan Pierce]

The reason cycling appears worse than most sports is because cycling has the most stringent anti doping procedures in place. It's always a constant struggle but at least they make a serious effort. If every sport did the same perceptions would be quite different.
dP

[mtrunner]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

The reason cycling appears worse than most sports is because cycling has the most stringent anti doping procedures in place. It's always a constant struggle but at least they make a serious effort. If every sport did the same perceptions would be quite different.
dP

Completely agree. It is a big part of why the sport looks worse than the rest. I mean come on the NFL doesn't even test for some performance enhancing drugs. If they did there wouldn't be a league.

[MoBe]

Armstrong says that he`s clean and says that 500 negative tests during his career are the proof of his statement.

I say 7 Tour de France wins are not possible without banned substances,as a matter of fact I don`t think even a single win is possible today without "help" of some kind,the level of competition is just too great to do it on training and natural nutrition alone.

If the USADA want to grind their ax at Armstrong`s expense then all I can say is,what took them so long,what`s the point of drug testing if they`re not going to enforce the rules?

[lavaman]

respectfully, i have followed the sport that closely. i have also followed people with stage 4 cancer.

oh well. my hoping doesnt mean he's clean any more than his critics hoping makes him dirty.

honestly though all his accusers have an axe to grind. so i wonder, but really, "lance was doping" to me is like bigfoot citings: sure, it's possible. but show me a body already

[mtrunner]

Originally Posted by lavaman

respectfully, i have followed the sport that closely. i have also followed people with stage 4 cancer.

oh well. my hoping doesnt mean he's clean any more than his critics hoping makes him dirty.

honestly though all his accusers have an axe to grind. so i wonder, but really, "lance was doping" to me is like bigfoot citings: sure, it's possible. but show me a body already

The fact he has had cancer has nothing to do with the fact he possibly doped to win. I know people on a daily basis that have stage 4 cancer since I actually work in cancer research. Just because someone survived cancer is not a defense. There are people who may have axes to grind that are possible witnesses such as Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton who are both convicted cheats themselves. Unfortunately there is a long list of guys who said Lance doped who are not convicted cheats. Supposedly one of those guys on the list is George Hincapie who rode with Lance on every tour and he testified in the criminal hearings that Lance doped. That is just one guy that is on a long list. Supposedly there are 7 other riders who actually have first hand knowledge that he cheated. That is just the witnesses. There are is also evidence that his blood tests in 2009 - 2010 are completely consistent with blood doping. The USDA has a very strong case against Lance.

Clearly none of us on this forum have all the facts and it is possible he didn't cheat but if you start to look at all the evidence against him it is not looking good.

Like I said I love this sport and have first hand knowledge of the amount of doping that goes on in this sport from some of the top guys. It is and has been prevalent for years. How was Lance the only guy in the Peleton that was clean when he won. Numerous guys in the top 10 in most of his tours have been busted.

[MoBe]

` and everybody that met the guy thought that Bernie Madoff was a great financial genius .........until the truth came out.

You can fool some of the people some of the time,etc..

[Lol-x]

Drugs are really bad for sport.
If true millions and millions of fans over years and years were deceived of true racing and real results.

[seand442]

Athletes will do what they have to do to win. Just look at baseball. Players have been crucified for using supplements that weren't illegal. Its the dirty side of all sports.

[zama]

We all hope Lance is innocent, just as being an Aussie I hope Cadel is as well. The part that is hard to accept is that drugs give up to 2% improvement in most endurance and power sports. If you consider the tour or the olympics is literally the best 20-200 in their sport at a point in time and these are global sports it makes it hard to believe any clean athlete is genuinely 2% better than the equivalent elite of the elite if some of them are on the juice.

Sadly a review of so many olympic and cycling events over the last 20 years show 20-75% of the finalists have proved to be drug cheats. Holding blood samples for 8 years to keep testing is a positive but as Marion Jones proved while you can take their fame you cant stop the money and the rest they make until proved guilty.

There are no answers right now and have not been for a long time. I heard not sure if it was true that the olympic anti doping asked J&J to put a marker in EPREX (EPO) to try and show up the cheats. Which rightly with massive costs to re register the product for a non indicated patient population said no.

It really does sour watching all sports. While I know heart and skill are important to to success in cycling and I am no guru in human performance I do remember reading that Lance's oxygen consumption capacity v2max or whatever it is called was not that amazing, good, but nowhere near as good as Greg LeMond the best ever or indurain or Ulrich. So if Lance does lose his titles, does Jan Ulrich get them, the last great East German athlete or was he done as well. Lance won so many there are a lot of new winners to consider if he does get bounced.

In terms of the olympics, there is a trade off between weeding out cheats and the reality the IOC does not want to make the olympics look bad. It seems the cycling authorities are more focused on being clean, the sport is much loved so they are trying hard to stamp out cheats

[mtrunner]

Originally Posted by zama

We all hope Lance is innocent, just as being an Aussie I hope Cadel is as well. The part that is hard to accept is that drugs give up to 2% improvement in most endurance and power sports. If you consider the tour or the olympics is literally the best 20-200 in their sport at a point in time and these are global sports it makes it hard to believe any clean athlete is genuinely 2% better than the equivalent elite of the elite if some of them are on the juice.

Sadly a review of so many olympic and cycling events over the last 20 years show 20-75% of the finalists have proved to be drug cheats. Holding blood samples for 8 years to keep testing is a positive but as Marion Jones proved while you can take their fame you cant stop the money and the rest they make until proved guilty.

There are no answers right now and have not been for a long time. I heard not sure if it was true that the olympic anti doping asked J&J to put a marker in EPREX (EPO) to try and show up the cheats. Which rightly with massive costs to re register the product for a non indicated patient population said no.

It really does sour watching all sports. While I know heart and skill are important to to success in cycling and I am no guru in human performance I do remember reading that Lance's oxygen consumption capacity v2max or whatever it is called was not that amazing, good, but nowhere near as good as Greg LeMond the best ever or indurain or Ulrich. So if Lance does lose his titles, does Jan Ulrich get them, the last great East German athlete or was he done as well. Lance won so many there are a lot of new winners to consider if he does get bounced.

In terms of the olympics, there is a trade off between weeding out cheats and the reality the IOC does not want to make the olympics look bad. It seems the cycling authorities are more focused on being clean, the sport is much loved so they are trying hard to stamp out cheats

It would get tricky who would be the champion. For instance this is a list of the 10 ten of the tour in 2003 and look at this list. Seven of the top ten have been busted for drugs at some point:

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) - Possible cheat
2 Jan Ullrich (GER) - Convicted doper
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (KAZ) - Convicted doper
4 Tyler Hamilton (USA) - Convicted doper
5 Haimar Zubeldia (ESP)
6 Iban Mayo (ESP) - Convicted doper
7 Ivan Basso (ITA) - Convicted doper
8 Christophe Moreau - Convicted doper
9 Carlos Sastre (ESP)
10 Francisco Mancebo (ESP) - Linked to Operation Puerto.

Looking at 7 of 10 convicted cheats in one year of the Tour and this just a look at the top 10!

[lavaman]

no but what I meant was simply that I find it very hard to believe any normal, rational person who come back from cancer and say, you know what, I think I am going to turn myself into a petri dish again...

(just my thoughts).