Do you prefer to buy from AD or private sales?

[imcarnuts]

Originally Posted by hl65

ad for me for sure--find a good one and build a solid relationship with them!

++++1

[CharlieMae]

martinr: You bought a 51,000 watch for 20% off, you didnt pay retail or even close to retail so, in your case no, you wont get smoked. You will definitely lose money as the watch isn't getting anywhere near 41k these days, but it's only a couple of thousand difference so in your case buying from an AD was the no brainer. I have purchased new sealed black dial 5980's for $35-36K and to me that would be a no brainer, saving an additional $5000 and 10%. I wouldn't pay an AD $41k. Again, your AD did you no favor really as there are a dozen for sale on ebay for 41k as well as other watch forums, so it is about the going price for the watch.

In cases where the savings is small, $1-2000 for example, I would agree the AD connection is worth it. When buying a 5270, for example, where the retail price is $176,000, if a dealer gives you 15% off you are saving $26,000 and can buy it for $150,000. But, if you shop online or ebay (grey market) the same watch is being sold for 130k or less and I could save $45-50,000 or an additional $20,000 above what the AD was offering and that's no joke. The difference is essentially enough to go buy a 5711 or 2 Rolex Daytona's.

One other point to consider...If you are going to an AD you are supposed to live locally or the AD could get in trouble for selling out of his area. Assuming you aren't shipping to an out of state address, you will also be required to pay sales tax at the local AD that you would not be required to pay when buying from a grey market seller.

[neurotichamster8]

With this AD vs Grey talk...going to buy a 5167 once my AD gets it. The MSRP is 20,300. I know this a popular reference so what will I expect to pay at the AD? This will be my first watch at this dealer but I'm looking to buying a 5711 or a 5990 next fall....Grey prices are around 18k.
Cheers.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

martinr: You bought a 51,000 watch for 20% off, you didnt pay retail or even close to retail so, in your case no, you wont get smoked. You will definitely lose money as the watch isn't getting anywhere near 41k these days, but it's only a couple of thousand difference so in your case buying from an AD was the no brainer. I have purchased new sealed black dial 5980's for $35-36K and to me that would be a no brainer, saving an additional $5000 and 10%. I wouldn't pay an AD $41k. Again, your AD did you no favor really as there are a dozen for sale on ebay for 41k as well as other watch forums, so it is about the going price for the watch.

In cases where the savings is small, $1-2000 for example, I would agree the AD connection is worth it. When buying a 5270, for example, where the retail price is $176,000, if a dealer gives you 15% off you are saving $26,000 and can buy it for $150,000. But, if you shop online or ebay (grey market) the same watch is being sold for 130k or less and I could save $45-50,000 or an additional $20,000 above what the AD was offering and that's no joke. The difference is essentially enough to go buy a 5711 or 2 Rolex Daytona's.

One other point to consider...If you are going to an AD you are supposed to live locally or the AD could get in trouble for selling out of his area. Assuming you aren't shipping to an out of state address, you will also be required to pay sales tax at the local AD that you would not be required to pay when buying from a grey market seller.

Thanks for all the free advice Charlie, you've been a big help, I'd love to see your Patek collection, did you buy it on eBay? You're very astute, if I were you I'd buy up all those 5980's and 5270's and sell them to all the suckers like me that like to throw their money away. Thanks again.

[CharlieMae]

I still have a few collectable PP's but, I feel that their quality control has gotten so piss poor and their new designs and in house movements are so bad that I stick to the classic Lemania's (all 5970's) and a 5711 for sport.

My passion has been exclusively vintage Rolex for about 3 years now, nothing PP sells interests me anymore.

AND, if you bought grey I could flip watches to you all day, instead you choose to buy from AD's so that eliminates you from my client base :)

Let me also mention that I know of MANY grey market dealers that sell watches to AD's and also trade PP's with AD's, especially on hard to find pieces. More food for thought..

[texex91]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

I still have a few collectable PP's but, I feel that their quality control has gotten so piss poor and their new designs and in house movements are so bad that I stick to the classic Lemania's (all 5970's) and a 5711 for sport.

My passion has been exclusively vintage Rolex for about 3 years now, nothing PP sells interests me anymore.

AND, if you bought grey I could flip watches to you all day, instead you choose to buy from AD's so that eliminates you from my client base :)

Let me also mention that I know of MANY grey market dealers that sell watches to AD's and also trade PP's with AD's, especially on hard to find pieces. More food for thought..

Love to see in your post #22 (in 2 years) on TRF your "few collectable" Patek's you still have.

This will give us more perspective on your collection.

Also, could you expand on the "piss poor Patek" QC you state exists.

Kinda curious if PP 'doesn't interest you anymore' why are you on the Patek forum

[CharlieMae]

I am a watch collector and enthusiast. I still have quite a bit of money invested in my 5970's and if Patek came out with something great I would be the first one in line to buy it, in spite of the quality control.

If you knew the history of their movements, you would know that several years ago they renounced the geneva seal for their own. They came up with quite a few reasons why they chose not to continue submitting their movements for inspection, we can all speculate forever as to why. In the end, they switched over to their own PP seal, which to me is complete BS. You dont have your own proprietary seal and board to oversee your own watches. To me, it is a glorified quality control board and clearly done to avoid paying for the geneva seal, to try and separate themselves from all others getting the geneva seal and to avoid delays when movements didnt pass.

Go read this and every other forum about date wheels that stick, blemishes on dials, second hands that don't reset to 12, crowns that just fall out and so on..

Of the many PP's I have handled I would say 10% had issues right out of the bag. To open a multi thousand dollar watch and have it fail is unacceptable. AND, when you bring it back to PP to repair under warranty, through an AD or not, they tell you 6 months. Not, "were terribly sorry about this, we will fix it immediately" but, there is a long repair list and you have to get in the queue.

The Lemania's were bullet proof. Even the 5711's that were not assembled in house were fantastic, like mine. But, the newer movements are all made in house by PP and basically the same movement is in a dozen different models.

I also believe that the reason the 5960p dropped like rock 1 year after production was because they ramped up and produced an endless amount of watches. Now they are selling for nearly 50% of retail! This is for a discontinued model that would usually increase dramatically after being discontinued. Unacceptable.

5070's all held their value and increased tremendously after being discontinued. I loved the old 5070's in all metals.

5170's, selling at 40% off brand new all day long on ebay.
$87k new and already being hawked for $56k with NO BUYERS!

Do I still love PP? No I love what PP USED to be, not what they currently are.

Why am I still on the PP forums? For these types of discussions and for the old timers who can reflect on what PP used to be.

[yjfang]

I appreciate CharlieMae's comments, even if he says things that people don't want to hear.

[texex91]

Fantastic. Enjoy the Patek forum and hope you gain some information that might be beneficial. Take care.

[GB-man]

Lets see those 5970's mate

Not allowed to tell us you have multiple 5970s without sharing