Why do the Big Crown vintage Subs get more "love"?

[Franks07]

I hope everyone is enjoying their Sunday...beautiful 75 degree sunny day in store fore Southern California. Be safe N.Y.
So as the owner of a "small crown" vintage Sub ref. 6205 I have to ask...what's the big deal about the size of the crown? Aside from what appears to be a very different (higher) valuation standard for the "big crowns" as compared to their "small crown" ancestors; why are the larger crown (8mm as compared to 6mm) in so much higher demand by collectors?
To be clear...I would love to own a 6200, 6536 or 6538 and very much appreciate their look and place in Rolex history.
As I read the many posts here on the Forum regarding early vintage Subs it seems that the desirability of these early pieces is driven primarily by the originality and overall condition of the dial (perhaps 50% or more of the value), hands, bezel insert and case. Very rarely is there even a mention of the crown (which is generally accepted as being ok to not be original to the watch although "period correct" is important).
Looking forward to the always enlightening responses from the Forum members.
Today I am taking my 6205 out of the safe for a little drive to the coast for brunch and some fresh air

[Vincent65]

Because big is better!

As you say, the dial is of paramount importance, but the whole 'big crown' thing isn't just about the crown alone - although I happen to think they look ace - it's the correct crown for that model/s, so then the dial has to be tip-top as well, of course, along with hands, bezel/insert, case, movement etc... Otherwise, everyone would just stick big crowns on all the subs with no crown-guards! It has to be correct. As for premium - as ever, it's about demand, surely. People want BCs, so the price goes up - there are not many of them around.

[HERITAGE82]

Simply because they look better and the big crown has become synonymous with the Submariner.... Also that is what James Bond wore

[dysondiver]

cos they are older , and a little past there best , not as tough as they used to be , and could probably tell interesting tales , about where they have been , seen and done ,,
not as good as they once were , but as good once as they ever were ,,,,







or is that just the folk who wear them.

[Franks07]

Interesting comments thus far. Following the James Bond iconic logic...if Sir James had worn a "Small Crown" 6536 what do we think would be the prevailing thought on "Small Crown" vs. "Big Crown" today? Perhaps something like "the big crown is just too big and detracts from the overall symmetry of the Sub case, bezel and dial"... Guess we will never know.
As for the "rarity" argument related to "Big Crowns" vs. "Small Crowns"...I am of the impression (perhaps erroneously) that "Small Crowns" are quite rare and certainly as rare as the hugely popular 6538 and 5802/5812 "Big Crown" references...I will leave that fact or fiction notion to the experts with far more knowledge than myself.
I just wanted to get some dialogue going on what I think is a very interesting issue related to the early no crown guard Subs.
Here is a shot of my "Small Crown" 6205's tropical dial basking in the sun in Laguna Beach, CA.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend...

[Dr.Smellody]

I think there is plenty of live out there four 6205s. Especially with original bits. I've seen plenty with updated hands, replaced bezels, and refinished dials. Your's in its state is amazing.

I have hands, crown, movement, and case going for mine. I don't want to speculate, but it appears so many had their dials refinished. My theory is touching up from radium burns.

Glad you are wearing and enjoying yours. I wear mine often. One day I will find an untouched dial. Ha!

[dysondiver]

loving that dial

[R.W.T.]

It's totally a Bond issue and I guarantee it would be visa versa had he worn a 6536-1 or 5508. 100% guarantee it.

[jedly1]

1. rarity , quick chrono24 search as a straw poll...

circa 50 small crown watches

circa 14 big crown watches....

2. bond, despite the constant calling of 'bond watch' by small crown owners, a bond watch is a big crown ...daft as it may be ..it carries a lot of weight and carries the watch across a boundary of appreciation from WIS to fashionista's etc (just like the newman)

3. last decades preference for a watch with more heft / bigger appearance ...it just feels chunkier.

[Im Lauf der Zeit]

Big crown looks more rugged... sporting... tool watch.

[themaninblack]

The late Ian Fleming did Rolex a sweet favour alright. Attachment to the worlds most popular fictional hero character and in return, Rolex did nothing but laugh all the way to the bank. (in the Swiss tradition!) If Fleming had put an Omega on Bond ...

[Franks07]

Let us not forget the "Small Crown" Submariner reference 6204/05 association with a true visionary and hero names Jacques Cousteau. Rolex legend has it that Mr. Cousteau had direct input on the design and specifications of the original Submariner. Surely that gives the "Small Crowns" some street cred...
Good conversation...much prefer this type of engaging dialogue to the "my Rolex and my shoes" posts

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by Franks07

Let us not forget the "Small Crown" Submariner reference 6204/05 association with a true visionary and hero names Jacques Cousteau. Rolex legend has it that Mr. Cousteau had direct input on the design and specifications of the original Submariner. Surely that gives the "Small Crowns" some street cred...
Good conversation...much prefer this type of engaging dialogue to the "my Rolex and my shoes" posts

But Cousteau was a true visionary not a fictional one. I think he also wore several differnt brands. It's the fantasy angle that gets people in. People talk about Steve McQueen and the Heuer Monaco not so much Joe Siffert and the Heuer Autavia. Heuer of couse paid for both to be worn.

Now where is that photo of my Rolex and my steering wheel?

[HERITAGE82]

Originally Posted by Franks07

Let us not forget the "Small Crown" Submariner reference 6204/05 association with a true visionary and hero names Jacques Cousteau. Rolex legend has it that Mr. Cousteau had direct input on the design and specifications of the original Submariner. Surely that gives the "Small Crowns" some street cred...
Good conversation...much prefer this type of engaging dialogue to the "my Rolex and my shoes" posts

... I never knew about Coustau having a hand in the design. Thank you for sharing.

[CrownMe]

i thought it was pretty obvious why the Big crown gets more love....its the Bond watch.

[Franks07]

There is a terrific write up in Rolexworld magazine (Jake's Blog) that comes up with a Google search of "Jacques Cousteau/rolex" under the heading "mystery solved". It has lots of pictures of The Sub 6205 in service on the Calypso including a pretty good screen shot of Jacques wearing what is speculated as a 6205. The issue of Jacques Cousteau's possible involvement in the development of the Submariner is posed by James Dowling but no definitive answer is offered. Very compelling reading.
Enjoy!

[omitohud]

BC is rarer n the big crown is oh so sexy. Even if small crown is rarer, I would still pick the BC. Good discussion. 👏


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[Franks07]

Soooo,,,what exactly is not to love?

[QueueCumber]

Perhaps with the older film technologies available for home viewing people couldn't tell which watch James Bond was originally wearing, but they could at the least see that the crown was a big crown in the first few movies???

I don't know about Rolex design, but Jacques Cousteau helped consult on the Doxa diving watches.

[jedly1]

and the Omega ploprof ...watch tart really :)

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by jedly1

and the Omega ploprof ...watch tart really :)

Yeah, that one was designed on board, on a rough night at sea, using the edge of a cigarette box, and a napkin ring. Still cool though - love it.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by jedly1

and the Omega ploprof ...watch tart really :)

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Yeah, that one was designed on board, on a rough night at sea, using the edge of a cigarette box, and a napkin ring. Still cool though - love it.

I still haven't found one of those of an early enough mark and good enough condition at the right price to add to my collection... :cry:

[R.W.T.]

[Franks07]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Yes...this is the gentleman who was a Director at Rolex in the early 50's who was a "close confidant" of Jacques Cousteau which gives rise to the notion that perhaps Mr. Cousteau consulted on the design and development of the first iteration of the "tool" Submariner dive watches. Very interesting history for sure.

[QueueCumber]

Yay! Found one with the specs I wanted and others I could live with...


Untitled by j0hnnycache, on Flickr

[Franks07]

Very nice example of a real conversation piece. Great history on that one. Nice addition to your very diverse and spectacular collection.