The 5513 to be my first

[Mr.H]

Hi, I am a long since enthusiast about history in general, but quite new to vintage Rolex, and therefore so glad for this forum and all I have learnt from reading here for the latest months. Thanks everybody!

My aim for joining the forum and reading a lot has been to get ready for making a choice between the different Sub alternatives, where bying a current brand new model from the local AD did not feel right. For long, the early 16800 matt dial around 1980 seemed the right choice, but during my latest reviews, I ended up wanting a 1680 plexi for the ultimate vintage feel. ND 5513 then emerged because of an even more clean design and ease of of daily use. Yesterday, I finally picked up my meters first ref 5513 in Rome dating from around 1967 serial (16...), and I just love it. The bracelet has been replaced by an alright leather strap, but I plan to find a suitable one at the VRF. This should be a 7206, right?

Meanwhile, I share pictures and should apreciate any comments as to the originality etc!

[Rockwell]

Good find. So much great information about the 5513 on this forum. For sure my next watch.

[Mr.H]

Thanks, I hope you are right.

[R-H]

Hello Harald and welcome, being new to the forum myself and new to vintage Rolex's, I can not offer much information on your watch that you don't already know, except post several higher quality photos from different angles and the experts on this forum can give you some good information on your watch. I just received a 1967 - 5513 myself 2 months ago and received a lot of information on sending it in for service and restoration.

[Mr.H]

Difficult to take photos in focus all over. Is it polished? Please comment!

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by R-H

Hello Harald and welcome, being new to the forum myself and new to vintage Rolex's, I can not offer much information on your watch that you don't already know, except post several higher quality photos from different angles and the experts on this forum can give you some good information on your watch. I just received a 1967 - 5513 myself 2 months ago and received a lot of information on sending it in for service and restoration.

Thanks R-H, nice to know there are more beginners! Congratulations on yours, I think we made excellent choices 😀I have read quite a lot, but still anxious to have "confirmation" Will post more pictures

[Mr.H]

My seller being a vintage dealer in Rome had it opened by watchmaker for inspection and authentication. I am thinking of servicing it, and guess that will not be aproblem as long as they are instruxted not to make any replacements?

[R-H]

You welcome, this form has really helped me out, give some photos done the sides showing the lugs, crown & guards, ect.. I have a thread on mine with before and after photos, but yours looks a lot better than mine did. I just noticed your location both my grandparents came over here from Norway in the 1890s my grandfather was from Oslo, it's on my list of places to visit.

[figsgrandpa]

I also own a 1967 5513 (1,605,xxx) which I've had since 1973. Like you, I'm no expert, but to my untrained eye your dial and hands look to be in excellent condition. Your crystal looks like it might have been replaced (or the watch was never worn) but that's not a big deal. Acrylic crystals get beat up and many of that age have new crystals.

As many on this forum will tell you, if you have the watch serviced, don't let them replace anything except the seals and gaskets. Some have said that if you bring it to a Rolex Service Center, they are often inclined to replace the face, dial, stem, crown, bezel insert and many other parts, in order to improve the watch's "functionality" without regard to the effect this has on the watch's collectability and value. For this reason, many of the experts on this forum have recommended that you go to a non-Rolex jeweler that specializes in Rolex repair and service. I'm sure someone could give you recommendations for several good places in Europe.

Here's a picture of my 1967 5513 if you want to compare it to yours.

[R-H]

Morning Harald, one of your questions on the bracelet, I believe you are right, the 7206 was the Swiss made riveted bracelet for these watches, they also had the American made C&I Rolex bracelet for the U.S. imports, I believe this gave Rolex a break on the import taxes at the time. I read that in that timeframe Rolex also had ones made in Japan and Mexico for those markets, I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that. Some on the forum recommended to me that if I would be wearing the watch regularly that I may want to pickup a 93150 because of the safety latch on the clasp, I may do that.
Looking at the condition of your watch I wouldn't think you would need to do anything but maybe a service? When I started my watch was a little ruffer than yours, here's a before and after of mine.

SAM_0290.jpg

SAM_0146.jpg

Good luck on yours and wear the heck out of it.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by figsgrandpa

I also own a 1967 5513 (1,605,xxx) which I've had since 1973. Like you, I'm no expert, but to my untrained eye your dial and hands look to be in excellent condition. Your crystal looks like it might have been replaced (or the watch was never worn) but that's not a big deal. Acrylic crystals get beat up and many of that age have new crystals.

As many on this forum will tell you, if you have the watch serviced, don't let them replace anything except the seals and gaskets. Some have said that if you bring it to a Rolex Service Center, they are often inclined to replace the face, dial, stem, crown, bezel insert and many other parts, in order to improve the watch's "functionality" without regard to the effect this has on the watch's collectability and value. For this reason, many of the experts on this forum have recommended that you go to a non-Rolex jeweler that specializes in Rolex repair and service. I'm sure someone could give you recommendations for several good places in Europe.

Here's a picture of my 1967 5513 if you want to compare it to yours.

Thank's a lot for your response, that picture is great for comparison as I guess you got it from a Rolex AD back in 1973? Your point about the crystal is interesting, I would easily go with that and assume it's been replaced or at least polished several times - how about yours? My seller however explained to me that my crystal is original, which he reasoned by the form of it compared to another service crystal being less "domed". My eye could not catch that, and as I will be wearing it daily, I can only think it is a matter of time. But you may be right that the watch is hardly worn and therefore the dial is excellent. That is however difficult to combine with the bracelet being gone and the crown show signs of some wear.

[Mr.H]

I have to make better photos as I get back home from vacation.
And it seems right for you to make the visit to Oslo if you never did so far, I assume you have no known living relatives in Oslo? Let me know if I can be of any help.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by R-H

Morning Harald, one of your questions on the bracelet, I believe you are right, the 7206 was the Swiss made riveted bracelet for these watches, they also had the American made C&I Rolex bracelet for the U.S. imports, I believe this gave Rolex a break on the import taxes at the time. I read that in that timeframe Rolex also had ones made in Japan and Mexico for those markets, I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that. Some on the forum recommended to me that if I would be wearing the watch regularly that I may want to pickup a 93150 because of the safety latch on the clasp, I may do that.
Looking at the condition of your watch I wouldn't think you would need to do anything but maybe a service? When I started my watch was a little ruffer than yours, here's a before and after of mine.

Attachment 641305

Attachment 641306

Good luck on yours and wear the heck out of it.

Morning! That is an amazing change from before. No matter what some collectors may argue, I personally think your watch gained in value and of course usability from that makeover. Was there a polish of everything or even replacement of the plexi crystal? I think a service perhaps with some gasket replacement will be my choice, but I will not go swimming with it anyway.

Your bracelet input highly apreciated. I did not know there were different ones for US market. My watch seems to have a past history in Brasil, but what bracelet it came with is unknown to me. As to the security clasp on the later model, that is worth considering. Unless you feel it is all wrong, you may even think of a leather strap like mine. True, it is not Rolex, but it wears really comfortably and feels secure. I sppend my vacation in Tuscanny, Italy at xlose to 40 celcius, and simple adjustment opportunity is great. i will anyway get the tools and learn to replace bracelet and straps when I get home.

[Mr.H]

This is about the best I could make right now on my ipad. A point to be aware of is no dots beneath the Rolex crown logo. I have learnt that with the replacement crowns in the 70's and later, there are three dots beneath. Anyone know more on this?

[R-H]

Yes I had mine completely redone as it had came from my wife's Grandfather, and I plan on passing it down to my son when I'm through playing with it, I may have done things a little different if it was for a collection or investment, it received a full service/overhaul with new main spring, balance shaft, O-rings and pressure tested, new Rolex crystal, case was polished, chamfers recut, bracelet was overhauled and polished, I was amazed with the out come.
I am also looking into a leather strap/band, just for a different look at times.
You are correct as I know of no relatives in Oslo, but I'm sure there must still be some left, after all the boats where not that big back then, there must have been an uncle or 2 left behind? It is definitely on my list of things to do in the next year or two.

Well Harald have a good Sunday, I'm turning in from Saturday night, I believe your about 9 hours ahead of us on the West Coast.

[petereoin]

Congratulations on your new purchase.
Your watch looks to be in great condition, the only thing that sticks out to me is the bezel insert, it appears to be a service replacement.

[R-H]

SAM_0289.jpg

You should be good or we're both in trouble.

[figsgrandpa]

Originally Posted by Mr.H

Thank's a lot for your response, that picture is great for comparison as I guess you got it from a Rolex AD back in 1973? Your point about the crystal is interesting, I would easily go with that and assume it's been replaced or at least polished several times - how about yours? My seller however explained to me that my crystal is original, which he reasoned by the form of it compared to another service crystal being less "domed". My eye could not catch that, and as I will be wearing it daily, I can only think it is a matter of time. But you may be right that the watch is hardly worn and therefore the dial is excellent. That is however difficult to combine with the bracelet being gone and the crown show signs of some wear.

Actually, I didn't get it from a Rolex AD back in 1973. It's kind of a long story, but one of my father's customers didn't have the money to pay a small debt, and he insisted that my father accept the watch in payment. My Dad had a very small wrist, so he gave the watch to me. I wore it for many years, and only recently had it serviced. I replaced the crystal because it was badly scratched and a large chunk of acrylic had been chipped off the edge. I also lost the bezel insert "pearl" years ago, and the jeweler put in that greenish thing you see in the picture. I plan on eventually replacing it with a more authentic one. Other than that, the face, hands, crown, etc. are all original.

The bracelets are subject to different wear and damage than the watch case. The bracelet on my watch got caught on something and broke in 1977, and I replaced it with a US made C&I bracelet. So, it's possible that your watch has been lightly worn and still lost its bracelet along the way.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by R-H

Yes I had mine completely redone as it had came from my wife's Grandfather, and I plan on passing it down to my son when I'm through playing with it, I may have done things a little different if it was for a collection or investment, it received a full service/overhaul with new main spring, balance shaft, O-rings and pressure tested, new Rolex crystal, case was polished, chamfers recut, bracelet was overhauled and polished, I was amazed with the out come.
I am also looking into a leather strap/band, just for a different look at times.
You are correct as I know of no relatives in Oslo, but I'm sure there must still be some left, after all the boats where not that big back then, there must have been an uncle or 2 left behind? It is definitely on my list of things to do in the next year or two.

Well Harald have a good Sunday, I'm turning in from Saturday night, I believe your about 9 hours ahead of us on the West Coast.

Did the pressure testing assure you that you can take the watch for a swim or shower without risk, and would you consider doing it?
Anyway, your watch seems alteady to have the kind of story which makes it really nice to pass it on to the next generation, and then to be of intererst, it certainly needs to be in nice and good working order. I guess the overhaul came at a significant cost, but would still be the right think to do.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by figsgrandpa

Actually, I didn't get it from a Rolex AD back in 1973. It's kind of a long story, but one of my father's customers didn't have the money to pay a small debt, and he insisted that my father accept the watch in payment. My Dad had a very small wrist, so he gave the watch to me. I wore it for many years, and only recently had it serviced. I replaced the crystal because it was badly scratched and a large chunk of acrylic had been chipped off the edge. I also lost the bezel insert "pearl" years ago, and the jeweler put in that greenish thing you see in the picture. I plan on eventually replacing it with a more authentic one. Other than that, the face, hands, crown, etc. are all original.

The bracelets are subject to different wear and damage than the watch case. The bracelet on my watch got caught on something and broke in 1977, and I replaced it with a US made C&I bracelet. So, it's possible that your watch has been lightly worn and still lost its bracelet along the way.

That is a great story of your watch! I am no way near that.
Do you by any chance know the cost of an US C&I bracelet like yours if available today? Is there a more specific reference for it? Thanks.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by petereoin

Congratulations on your new purchase.
Your watch looks to be in great condition, the only thing that sticks out to me is the bezel insert, it appears to be a service replacement.

Thank you for this response, please explain why you think the bezel insert is a service replacement. Nice to know. Thanks.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by R-H

Attachment 641376

You should be good or we're both in trouble.

Thanks R-H, agreed. In a bookstore in Bologna today, I found an Italian book with pictures of different crown logos indicating different functions (one dot, two dots, three dots). I have some idea what it means, but think tjos applies to later models. I am not reading Italian well, so I will pick up the book in English somewhere else.

[R-H]

Originally Posted by Mr.H

Did the pressure testing assure you that you can take the watch for a swim or shower without risk, and would you consider doing it?
Anyway, your watch seems alteady to have the kind of story which makes it really nice to pass it on to the next generation, and then to be of intererst, it certainly needs to be in nice and good working order. I guess the overhaul came at a significant cost, but would still be the right think to do.

It was tested to depth, but I do not get it near water, I have other watches for that, why risk it.
Yes the cost was a little high, but considering the price I got the watch for it was a deal.

For your question on the bezel insert, I found these articles on the bezels, because I had the same question how do you tell the difference.

http://www.vintagehour.com/visual-co...bezel-inserts/

http://www.vintagehour.com/visual-co...nserts-part-2/

[figsgrandpa]

Originally Posted by Mr.H

That is a great story of your watch! I am no way near that.
Do you by any chance know the cost of an US C&I bracelet like yours if available today? Is there a more specific reference for it? Thanks.

The C&I bracelets have no markings on them except for "C&I USA ##" on the clasp (## is the last two digits of the year of manufacture). I don't believe they still sell them new, but, like the watches, they are available used through various sources. While not as expensive as a 7206, they can still cost hundreds of dollars.

With constant wear, the rivet bracelets can stretch over the years, so before you buy a used one, check it out. There's a man in Hong Kong named Michael Young, who, for a couple of hundred dollars, can refurbish rivet bracelets, and some of the members on this forum have used his services.

Have you looked at NATO straps? NATO straps are nylon bands that were originally developed for the British Ministry of Defense for Rolex watches that had been converted for military use. "Mil Spec" Rolexes have a solid bar of stainless steel permanently attached between the lugs so they can't use bracelets or any other strap that is attached with spring bars. NATO straps thread through the bars and have a retainer that keeps the watch from sliding around on the strap. Many Rolex owners put a set of spring bars on their watches, and then thread a NATO strap through them. They're comfortable, secure and the watch looks good on them. They come in a variety of colors and are not at all expensive.

[R-H]

Originally Posted by figsgrandpa

The C&I bracelets have no markings on them except for "C&I USA ##" on the clasp (## is the last two digits of the year of manufacture). I don't believe they still sell them new, but, like the watches, they are available used through various sources. While not as expensive as a 7206, they can still cost hundreds of dollars.

With constant wear, the rivet bracelets can stretch over the years, so before you buy a used one, check it out. There's a man in Hong Kong named Michael Young, who, for a couple of hundred dollars, can refurbish rivet bracelets, and some of the members on this forum have used his services.

Have you looked at NATO straps? NATO straps are nylon bands that were originally developed for the British Ministry of Defense for Rolex watches that had been converted for military use. "Mil Spec" Rolexes have a solid bar of stainless steel permanently attached between the lugs so they can't use bracelets or any other strap that is attached with spring bars. NATO straps thread through the bars and have a retainer that keeps the watch from sliding around on the strap. Many Rolex owners put a set of spring bars on their watches, and then thread a NATO strap through them. They're comfortable, secure and the watch looks good on them. They come in a variety of colors and are not at all expensive.

Figsgrandpa
I just wanted to say hi and thanks, you were one of the forum members that helped me out with my 67, 5513, 2 months ago, The restoration job turned out great do the advise I received from the forum.
I was looking around doesn't look like a good week for buying vintage bracelets, E-bay several C&I 20mm from $1600 to $3999
There's a listing in the Rolex for sale section on this forum for a NOS 1968, 7206 for $2000, it seemed they were about half that two months ago?

[petereoin]

Originally Posted by Mr.H

Thank you for this response, please explain why you think the bezel insert is a service replacement. Nice to know. Thanks.

The font size of the numbers are very narrow (thin) and usually indicative of a service replacement. I wouldn't expect to see that as original on a MF 5513

Compare yours to figsgrandpa photo

[figsgrandpa]

Originally Posted by R-H

Figsgrandpa
I just wanted to say hi and thanks, you were one of the forum members that helped me out with my 67, 5513, 2 months ago, The restoration job turned out great do the advise I received from the forum.
I was looking around doesn't look like a good week for buying vintage bracelets, E-bay several C&I 20mm from $1600 to $3999
There's a listing in the Rolex for sale section on this forum for a NOS 1968, 7206 for $2000, it seemed they were about half that two months ago?

You're quite welcome. Most of the people on this forum are supportive of each other, and I was happy to help. Your watch came out looking superb. ABC Watchwerks did a splendid job. It's amazing how the dial and hands look when you replace the crystal.

As far as the price of C&I bracelets, when I bought mine new in 1977 to replace the broken original one, I think I paid $25, which I considered highway robbery. At that time, a nice non-Rolex band could be bought for $5 to $10. If I had only known how much they'd be worth today, I would have broken open my piggy bank and bought a dozen.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by petereoin

Congratulations on your new purchase.
Your watch looks to be in great condition, the only thing that sticks out to me is the bezel insert, it appears to be a service replacement.

Thanks, I think I can see a difference from other bezels having fat font or long fives.

[Mr.H]

Originally Posted by R-H

It was tested to depth, but I do not get it near water, I have other watches for that, why risk it.
Yes the cost was a little high, but considering the price I got the watch for it was a deal.

For your question on the bezel insert, I found these articles on the bezels, because I had the same question how do you tell the difference.

http://www.vintagehour.com/visual-co...bezel-inserts/

http://www.vintagehour.com/visual-co...nserts-part-2/

Thanks, the linked articles proved really helpful. It took me some time before I learned to spot the differences, but now, I think I can see a difference from the bezels on figsgrandpa's and your watches ("long fives"?). My bezel - like mentioned by petereoined, having thinner font and no long five, seem to be a service bezel.

[gileto]

Originally Posted by Mr.H

Thanks, I think I can see a difference from other bezels having fat font or long fives.

long 5 fat font on original 1967 5513...