Same seller, different 5513

[fizz]

So this is another 79 5513 from one of the previous sellers I was considering.

The insert I'm told is original and while the case has seen some polish, its not refinished like the other one. This is also Maxi 3 (previous one was Maxi 2). The dial isn't as stunning, since I think there is some flaking on the 3 hour marker but I've asked for another pic just to be sure. The end links on this are wrong but it will be supplied with the period correct 580. Bracelet of course is 93150. No box, no papers, slightly cheaper than the previous model (which is surprising!). Also, most importantly, no pitting on case back, though I suspect the two CG's look uneven in thickness.

Also, can't tell but is this a superdome or a replacement service crystal?

What do you learned folks think? Worth pursuing?

[fizz]

Hi,

I hope I've not exhausted everyone with my constant new threads and barrage of images.

Any thoughts (positive/negative) on this would be highly appreciated.

[The_Walrus]

Unsure of the previous watch you were considering so won't be comparing.
Yes CG are uneven but everything else I like.
Clean dial, even patinaning with hands, nice faded fat font, case slight polish but still plenty of meat and for me very important no corrosion evident in movement and on caseback

If the price suits I would pull the trigger.

[Pharmlou]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Unsure of the previous watch you were considering so won't be comparing.
Yes CG are uneven but everything else I like.
Clean dial, even patinaning with hands, nice faded fat font, case slight polish but still plenty of meat and for me very important no corrosion evident in movement and on caseback

If the price suits I would pull the trigger.

+1. If you like it. You sound a little battle weary though, so I hope you are not settling as this is not a rare model. Many will come up for sale.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Unsure of the previous watch you were considering so won't be comparing.
Yes CG are uneven but everything else I like.
Clean dial, even patinaning with hands, nice faded fat font, case slight polish but still plenty of meat and for me very important no corrosion evident in movement and on caseback

If the price suits I would pull the trigger.

Yes - nice honest piece.

CG's are usually uneven

[Robbyvm]

It looks very nice Faizal !!
No service dome based on the pics provided...

[fizz]

Originally Posted by Pharmlou

+1. If you like it. You sound a little battle weary though, so I hope you are not settling as this is not a rare model. Many will come up for sale.

Louis thanks for your response. I like it but I don't want to make a wrong decision. I am weary and very tired of searching. I know the hunt is half the fun for most people, but it's been a drain on my personal life on every front and part of me just wants to get done with it because if not now, I'll probably give up for good and never go back to hunting. This particular model (Maxi 1/2/3 from 79) isn't rare per se, but it is in demand. I'm not in it because of the big dial craziness (though I admit I like the look more than the others) but because it is over and above those things, a birth year piece. Versions from this era that are perfect (i.e. no problems whatsoever, with box, with papers etc.) are going for a very, very high premium - almost 12k.

By comparison this is a decent price.

Now, regarding the price, it's complicated by the fact that the UAE Dirham (AED) is pegged to the USD, so whenever the USD becomes stronger, I'm at an advantage. Last month the Euro was relatively low compared to the USD but just today it's gained strength and suddenly the price has gone up (without the seller doing anything about it, since his price has been fixed) from USD 9.2k to 9.4k!!!

This I have to live with unless I am buying from the US.

The only problem I've faced after weeks and weeks of correspondences is that very few sellers want to keep up with all the questions that I have. I have to give credit to this seller for having answered nearly all my questions and providing new pictures at every opportunity and when asked. Almost half of the other sellers don't reply when I ask for pictures of the open caseback because many of the private sellers don't have the right tools to open it up. They counter it by trying to convince me that it's unimportant and how these watches will outlive us and our children. So at least here, all the facts are known and in the open, warts and all. It's less risky that way and personally I feel more content.

Finally, and personally, I prefer faded inserts and this has one. The only thing that bothers me is the minor chipping on the insert near the 30 and 35 minute markers, but I'm hoping I can live with that in the long run.

Originally Posted by linesiders

Yes - nice honest piece.

CG's are usually uneven

Wow, really? You learn something new every day!!!

[05carbondrz]

To me this looks like the best One yet.I would just buy it and start enjoying a nice vintage Sub.The price You paid fades quickly,Don't worry.

[Pharmlou]

Originally Posted by fizz

Louis thanks for your response. I like it but I don't want to make a wrong decision. I am weary and very tired of searching. I know the hunt is half the fun for most people, but it's been a drain on my personal life on every front and part of me just wants to get done with it because if not now, I'll probably give up for good and never go back to hunting. This particular model (Maxi 1/2/3 from 79) isn't rare per se, but it is in demand. I'm not in it because of the big dial craziness (though I admit I like the look more than the others) but because it is over and above those things, a birth year piece. Versions from this era that are perfect (i.e. no problems whatsoever, with box, with papers etc.) are going for a very, very high premium - almost 12k.

By comparison this is a decent price.

Now, regarding the price, it's complicated by the fact that the UAE Dirham (AED) is pegged to the USD, so whenever the USD becomes stronger, I'm at an advantage. Last month the Euro was relatively low compared to the USD but just today it's gained strength and suddenly the price has gone up (without the seller doing anything about it, since his price has been fixed) from USD 9.2k to 9.4k!!!

This I have to live with unless I am buying from the US.

The only problem I've faced after weeks and weeks of correspondences is that very few sellers want to keep up with all the questions that I have. I have to give credit to this seller for having answered nearly all my questions and providing new pictures at every opportunity and when asked. Almost half of the other sellers don't reply when I ask for pictures of the open caseback because many of the private sellers don't have the right tools to open it up. They counter it by trying to convince me that it's unimportant and how these watches will outlive us and our children. So at least here, all the facts are known and in the open, warts and all. It's less risky that way and personally I feel more content.

Finally, and personally, I prefer faded inserts and this has one. The only thing that bothers me is the minor chipping on the insert near the 30 and 35 minute markers, but I'm hoping I can live with that in the long run.



Wow, really? You learn something new every day!!!

Good luck with the purchase mate. Enjoy with health. Now you can buy some nice minimal stitch leather bands, some leather and nylon Natos and be amazed how versatile a Vintage Rolex can be.
Cheers, Lou

[asleep]

Looks pretty clean to these untrained eyes compared to most.

[Kingface66]

Faizan, just my opinion, but it's a gorgeous watch! You should absolutely buy it without apprehension or second-guessing. It won't be necessary. The chipping on the insert is just a very, very minor blemish. With virtually ANY watch that old you will be able to find something you wish you could change, if you look enough. It's just the way it is. But the positives SO out-weigh it, in this case! You will find yourself staring at it constantly, and will garner many compliments. I promise!

[Wing Zero]

I know you're drained, I've been with you on your journey... but I would ask for macro pics of that dial.

Something about those plots look off... puffy..uneven.. maybe re-lumed?

Should be flat like this:

Compare with Yours:

[fizz]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Faizan, just my opinion, but it's a gorgeous watch! You should absolutely buy it without apprehension or second-guessing. It won't be necessary. The chipping on the insert is just a very, very minor blemish. With virtually ANY watch that old you will be able to find something you wish you could change, if you look enough. It's just the way it is. But the positives SO out-weigh it, in this case! You will find yourself staring at it constantly, and will garner many compliments. I promise!

Very good points, and my 3 months + of endless search would agree with your point about how every watch has something that I wish was better.

[fizz]

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

I know you're drained, I've been with you on your journey... but I would ask for macro pics of that dial.

Something about those plots look off... puffy..uneven.. maybe re-lumed?

JC, I'm glad you bring up the puffiness or so of the hour markers, because proactive person that I am since I've been educated by this brilliant forum, I asked for a very high resolution pic of the dial already and just received it an hour or so ago.

I've cropped it to focus only on the dial details and hour markers...what do you think? Re-lumed? Or ok?

I brought this up in my conversation with the seller today asking whether it was chipping off due to the puffiness and he said it's "perfect" and looked "better in person".

Your thoughts? I honestly can't tell...

[Kingface66]

I'm inclined to say that there are a lot of puffy-plotted (!) dials out there that have not been relumed. My '66 Sub is all-original and has significantly puffy plots.
If you take a look at 1979 Subs on the HQ Milton site (he has a lot of of ones they've sold still up on the site) you will see a fair bit of puffy plots on original, un-lumed dials. Here's one:
http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1979...k-iv-maxi-dial

I've no doubt that Jacek would've mentioned reluming if it was the case.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by fizz

JC, I'm glad you bring up the puffiness or so of the hour markers, because proactive person that I am since I've been educated by this brilliant forum, I asked for a very high resolution pic of the dial already and just received it an hour or so ago.

I've cropped it to focus only on the dial details and hour markers...what do you think? Re-lumed? Or ok?

I brought this up in my conversation with the seller today asking whether it was chipping off due to the puffiness and he said it's "perfect" and looked "better in person".

Your thoughts? I honestly can't tell...

Plots looks too puffy for that dial at this time period, IMHO. (The puffy plots, I believe, were on dials in the mid/late '60s.) Nothing is absolute, of course, and without seeing the watch in person it's hard to tell for sure, but I would expect the plots to be flatter at this time period and to have a slight waffle texture as seen on my 3.7 serial 5512 below. The dial on the watch you're considering might have been relumed. Does this seller provide a no-questions-asked return policy? Perhaps you could get it in your hands for a better inspection and return it if needed. Good luck either way.

[Robbyvm]

Nothing wrong with these plots... Some are more puffy then others

Search the web for '79 5513's and you will find plenty of puffy ones (from well known sellers...)

The watch looks very nice !

[Wing Zero]

Thanks for the macro pic.
Actually I'm on the fence. I cannot say either way with internet pictures.

You be the judge.
I'll help you

[RC2]

If it's relumed. Damn fine job.

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by fizz

JC, I'm glad you bring up the puffiness or so of the hour markers, because proactive person that I am since I've been educated by this brilliant forum, I asked for a very high resolution pic of the dial already and just received it an hour or so ago.

I've cropped it to focus only on the dial details and hour markers...what do you think? Re-lumed? Or ok?

I brought this up in my conversation with the seller today asking whether it was chipping off due to the puffiness and he said it's "perfect" and looked "better in person".

Your thoughts? I honestly can't tell...

That's a beautiful n clean dial. 👍


I blame it on the autoconnect.

[The_Walrus]

Nothing wrong with your dial. Puffy for me is the tops ��
And by the way, the hunt for a watch shouldn't impact on your personal life (too much ).
Yes it is an obsession for all of us but you really should set some boundaries, particularly if wife and kids are involved. The experience should be an enjoyable one, not stressful.
After all you will see the hunt far outweighs ownership of any watch but full consideration must be given to those around you.
Best of luck.

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Nothing wrong with your dial. Puffy for me is the tops ��
And by the way, the hunt for a watch shouldn't impact on your personal life (too much ).
Yes it is an obsession for all of us but you really should set some boundaries, particularly if wife and kids are involved. The experience should be an enjoyable one, not stressful.
After all you will see the hunt far outweighs ownership of any watch but full consideration must be given to those around you.
Best of luck.

I agree 100% the hunt should be enjoyable and exiting not a stressful experience..

[fizz]

As always, I am ever grateful for the sage advice. Without this collective knowledge, I would be lost!

About the puffiness. I think I have seen numerous examples of both dials with and without it. I never thought twice about it because I assumed it constituted yet another characteristic of vintage dials (just the way some have more patina and others less). I never thought it would have anything to do with reluming.

I have no doubt that the seller has not had anything to do with the puffiness. It is just the way it has been received and is being sold. However, I am still not sure if I should be concerned. Opinion here seems to be evenly divided, with some saying its perfectly fine, and others quite convinced it is 100% relumed.

In an effort to make an informed decision, I am trying to upload the full resolution 4MB file and link it here so that you can view it without any artefacts caused by resizing interfering with the image.

[fizz]

Also, puffy dials on Mark 3 don't seem to be uncommon as pointed out above in the shots from Hqmilton, but also these ones from Lunaroyster (from their archive):

[Robbyvm]

The dial is fine, the watch looks great, the seller is reliable and the price is within your budget... no need to hesitate....

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by fizz

As always, I am ever grateful for the sage advice. Without this collective knowledge, I would be lost!

About the puffiness. I think I have seen numerous examples of both dials with and without it. I never thought twice about it because I assumed it constituted yet another characteristic of vintage dials (just the way some have more patina and others less). I never thought it would have anything to do with reluming.

I have no doubt that the seller has not had anything to do with the puffiness. It is just the way it has been received and is being sold. However, I am still not sure if I should be concerned. Opinion here seems to be evenly divided, with some saying its perfectly fine, and others quite convinced it is 100% relumed.

In an effort to make an informed decision, I am trying to upload the full resolution 4MB file and link it here so that you can view it without any artefacts caused by resizing interfering with the image.

Wait. Who is saying it is 100% relumed? It's quite a bold statement to make, and one that shows expert insight and deduction with complete proof. Don't get me wrong, while I agree that in some cases a photo is all you need to see that something on a watch is fraudulent or unoriginal, in this case it doesn't seem to be the case. I'd just like to know what "100%" proof they have that it's a relume.

[fizz]

Sorry I admit my statement came out wrong...I meant some are sure it is likely relumed (not necessarily with 100% certainty).

I wish all sellers were like hqmilton/lunaroyster/andrewshear etc. and knew how to provide quality pictures of every facet of a watch without being prompted to do so.

In the internet age, good, clear, unambiguous pictures that are consistent from one product to the next may be the single biggest differentiator between something that sells and something that doesn't. Unfortunately, this particular seller seems handicapped when it comes to their ability to take good clean pictures on request.

Having said that do you think it would help if I asked for another picture of the dial?

[fizz]

Also, a thought occurs to me so feel free to pitch in - let's assume it is not relumed.

What's wrong (if anything) with this level of puffiness? Is it an indication (like pitting is) of some potential trouble down the line? Will the puffing result, at some point, in frail and brittle hour markers falling/chipping off?

This is important for me to know if I decide to take the plunge.

[RC2]

Why don't you call Jacek at hq Milton and buy one from him.

[fizz]

Originally Posted by RC2

Why don't you call Jacek at hq Milton and buy one from him.

I've exchanged mails with him a month ago. At that time he only had one 5513 from 79 that has a dial with some bubbling (still available). I don't like it for that reason. You can see it here:

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1979...-ii-maxi-dial1

He hasn't had a 79 Maxi since then, but has a couple of others (both from 81) which are pretty decent (but have something or the other that irks me - replacement bezel, non-matching hands etc.)

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1981...-iv-maxi-dial2

and

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1981...-iv-maxi-dial4

I can get one of those I suppose. The year isn't certain anyway...but that's a last resort.