Vintage submariner price

[Tony-GB]

Hi All

Just want to know everyone's opinion on how much to pay for a 1967 5513 Sub. A dealer has a two, both 10K (UK pounds). Descriptions from the dealer:

One is "Gloss Black Dial, Gilt Writing, Mercedes Hands, Automatic Movement & the metre depth is before the ft depth. No bracelet, on a leather strap."

The other is "Ref 5513, Black Dial Mercedes Hands, Automatic Movement on a bracelet"

Both have crown guards.

What's the forums opinion please?

Thanks in advance

[Mr Sandman]

If the gilt dial was on the bracelet I would pay 10K for it but not on leather.
If the other 5513 is a standard 5513 then 10K is way too much IMO

As buyers we must remember its the 'credit crunch' and as such this can help when buying or striking up a deal

[Tony-GB]

Thanks Jim. What's the deal with the gilt dial? What is so special about it?

[gmt 16750]

I have to say both deals seems rather expensive indeed to my tight Scottish eyes........

[stevemulholland3]

Originally Posted by gmt 16750

I have to say both deals seems rather expensive indeed to my tight Scottish eyes........

agreed,and my eyes are american...but still pretty tight,lol

[SLS]

To start, the information by the seller islacking a lot! IMO, the seller may be off on the year on the first watch described, I thought the gloss gilt dials were a few years earlier? Not sure about the second watch desribed. Pictures would speak volumes here of course. It also seems like this dealer is trying to get high 2007 pricing in a time wear "price reduction" is seen following many watches being posted for sale.
~Scott

[mike]

Originally Posted by SLS

To start, the information by the seller islacking a lot! IMO, the seller may be off on the year on the first watch described, I thought the gloss gilt dials were a few years earlier? Not sure about the second watch desribed. Pictures would speak volumes here of course. It also seems like this dealer is trying to get high 2007 pricing in a time wear "price reduction" is seen following many watches being posted for sale.
~Scott

Scott, I agree. That might be a bit late for gilt/gloss.

Condition is key on any vintage piece, but as others have said that is a bit strong to me.

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by mike

Scott, I agree. That might be a bit late for gilt/gloss.

Condition is key on any vintage piece, but as others have said that is a bit strong to me.

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Very interesting to hear your thoughts on the dial. The dealer only sells Rolex in Burlington Arcade, London. here's a link & the watches in question are the 1967 Subs, bottom left.

http://www.vintagewatchcompany.com/r...&end=12&page=2

The 5513 on leather has a unique dial apparently. The depth rating is reversed as opposed to "ordinary" dials.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Tony-GB

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Very interesting to hear your thoughts on the dial. The dealer only sells Rolex in Burlington Arcade, London. here's a link & the watches in question are the 1967 Subs, bottom left.

http://www.vintagewatchcompany.com/r...&end=12&page=2

The 5513 on leather has a unique dial apparently. The depth rating is reversed as opposed to "ordinary" dials.

Tony, that's interesting. I can't make the photo larger to really study it, but generally the timeframe is as follows;

Meters first with Submariner under circa 62-68
Feet first with Submariner under circa 69-77
Feet first with Submariner OVER circa 78-89

Of course there is always crossover.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by Tony-GB

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Very interesting to hear your thoughts on the dial. The dealer only sells Rolex in Burlington Arcade, London. here's a link & the watches in question are the 1967 Subs, bottom left.

http://www.vintagewatchcompany.com/r...&end=12&page=2

The 5513 on leather has a unique dial apparently. The depth rating is reversed as opposed to "ordinary" dials.

Tony,
That particular dealer is always very expensive.
I have seen Explorers priced at over 5 grand GBP that's at least twice as much as normal.
I'd say most 5513s like my one pic below (1968) matt dial with meters first would be around £5000 GBP in a dealers window and between £3500-£4000 on say eBay.
The gloss gilt would add a approx £2000.

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by mike

Tony, that's interesting. I can't make the photo larger to really study it, but generally the timeframe is as follows;

Meters first with Submariner under circa 62-68
Feet first with Submariner under circa 69-77
Feet first with Submariner OVER circa 78-89

Of course there is always crossover.

Thanks Mike

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by Spark

Tony,
That particular dealer is always very expensive.
I have seen Explorers priced at over 5 grand GBP that's at least twice as much as normal.
I'd say most 5513s like my one pic below (1968) matt dial with meters first would be around £5000 GBP in a dealers window and between £3500-£4000 on say eBay.
The gloss gilt would add a approx £2000.

Wow, thanks for the pic Mark

I reckon I'll just have to sit tight then. I'm not skilled enough to buy anything off eBay, so will stick to the dealers.

What is gilt writing though...?

[Spark]

Originally Posted by Tony-GB

Wow, thanks for the pic Mark

I reckon I'll just have to sit tight then. I'm not skilled enough to buy anything off eBay, so will stick to the dealers.

What is gilt writing though...?

The gilt writing is when the Coronet, the word ROLEX, Submariner and the depth rating are written in gold (looks almost beige with age) and this was only done on the gloss black dials which were on the early watches before they switched to matt black dials.

[Spark]

Here is a picture I stole of a gilt.

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by Spark

Here is a picture I stole of a gilt.

Superb. Thanks very much Mark.

[mike]

Tony, here's a great place to view various gilt dials.

http://vintagerolexforum.info/vrf/dials.html

There really is something special about them.

Not a sub, but one of my most cherished pieces.

[Trurolexer]

Nice Vintage pics Everyone!!!

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by mike

Tony, here's a great place to view various gilt dials.

http://vintagerolexforum.info/vrf/dials.html

There really is something special about them.

Not a sub, but one of my most cherished pieces.

Thanks for the link & pic Mike

[stevemulholland3]

dont forget to tell him there is also silver gilt,where it is in silver instead of gold.
I know really confusing now ehhh.

[TaGY2K]

How long does it take for a rolex to turn those while spot to yellowest color? or what cause it to turn yellowest?

[Jason Spring]

Dont forget if the rivet bracelet is on it, you can add a lot of money.
I ve bought mine, with the last serviced plexi (the flat one), without dot in the bezel, with an old bracelet for 3800€
Then I ve bought an original 7206 from the same year of production, a plexi dome, a new dot, and a good movement rehab.
But I don t know how will cost my watch at this time.

[SLS]

Originally Posted by TaGY2K

How long does it take for a rolex to turn those while spot to yellowest color? or what cause it to turn yellowest?

One theory is that the dials that have been, and still are exposed to sunlight have the nice creamy white markers, whereas watches that have led a "sheltered life" in safe develope a patina. This was a huge topic of discussion another website which ended with one of the members straping his 5513 to a tree to see if it would lighten the dial up!
~Scott

[Kevinm]

So I have to ask I have a 5513 in fantastic shape where as the face was changed and now has the numbers or indicators surrounded by the white gold, and the submariner above the depth. The watch is 1969 1970. So does this take away from the value. Rolex replaced the face afer the watch got flooded on a dive. I am the original owner.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Kevinm

So I have to ask I have a 5513 in fantastic shape where as the face was changed and now has the numbers or indicators surrounded by the white gold, and the submariner above the depth. The watch is 1969 1970. So does this take away from the value. Rolex replaced the face afer the watch got flooded on a dive. I am the original owner.

I take it what you have is a service replacement luminova dial? If so it should say "SWISS" at the bottom.

Your original dial would have been matt/tritium. As Rolex replaces with the latest current dial, your's will be gloss/WG surrounds with superluminova. (The 5513 went to a gloss/WG dial circa 1985).

It's always a question of what you want from the watch and it's pre-replacement condition. To a collector, replacement of the original dial with a lumi service impacts the value of the watch. To what extent depends on the watches era and condition of the original.
Perhaps I'm breaking ranks with the purists, but if the dial is shot or damaged I see a lot of merit in a functional service replacement. Personally, I'd rather have that than most re-lume,re-paints I've seen.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by mike

I take it what you have is a service replacement luminova dial? If so it should say "SWISS" at the bottom.

Your original dial would have been matt/tritium. As Rolex replaces with the latest current dial, your's will be gloss/WG surrounds with superluminova. (The 5513 went to a gloss/WG dial circa 1985).

It's always a question of what you want from the watch and it's pre-replacement condition. To a collector, replacement of the original dial with a lumi service impacts the value of the watch. To what extent depends on the watches era and condition of the original.
Perhaps I'm breaking ranks with the purists, but if the dial is shot or damaged I see a lot of merit in a functional service replacement. Personally, I'd rather have that than most re-lume,re-paints I've seen.

Couldn't agree more mate
I am getting more and more bemused by some dealers etc.. with their descriptions of nice ageing or lovely patina when in truth the dial is totally shot and spotty as hell

[Gurmot]

Originally Posted by Spark

Tony,
That particular dealer is always very expensive.
I have seen Explorers priced at over 5 grand GBP that's at least twice as much as normal.
I'd say most 5513s like my one pic below (1968) matt dial with meters first would be around £5000 GBP in a dealers window and between £3500-£4000 on say eBay.
The gloss gilt would add a approx £2000.

As usual, Mark is spot on. I am the proud owner of a 1967 5513 with meters first matte dial. I wouldn't sell mine for the prices above but I'm pretty sure I could replace it for under £5000 if I needed to.

Mine's away for a minor repair at the moment and I miss it like crazy

Good luck in your search and please post some pics once you've scored.

Cheers - Simon

[Kevinm]

Mike It actually says swiss<25

[mike]

Originally Posted by Kevinm

Mike It actually says swiss<25

Ah, sounds like it's an older tritium replacement then. Much better.

[Kevinm]

Mike Thanks!