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janc · 10 July 2008, 10:24 PM

Ok Guys ,
If you have seen my previous threads you may recall I bought a non date 10 year old sub which was actually a 14060 .I believe the movement on this model was changed about 9 or 10 years ago and the non date became the 14060M.
I am happy with the watch but it is running between 8 and 9 seconds a day slow.
I can live with this but would prefer if it was more like say 4 to 5 at most.
What I am wondering is whether 8 to 9 seconds slow is par for the course anyway for the( older) movement of my watch .I was going to send it for service to Rolex but there wouldnt be much point (and just cost me £250)unless they could actually get the accuracy to the level I would prefer?
Sorry for the waffly nature of this thread but has anyone got any specialist knowledge of this area?
Regards Jan.

Tools · 10 July 2008, 11:03 PM

The 14060 has the Rolex 3000 movement which was first introduced in ~1990 and then modified slightly to become the 3130 in the 14060M. (M for Modified)

The main differences for your movement is that the 3000 used a balance cock to hold the balance and hairspring in place (the 3130 has a full balance bridge), and it used a flat hairspring rather than the Rolex signature Breguet overcoil. This modification brought the 3000 into line with the rest of the Rolex movements with these "signature" parts.

These changes added stability to the movement, but not necessarily accuracy. Many very fine movements have a balance cock and flat hairspring such as the Omega Seamaster cal. 1120 COSC movement.

There is no reason that your 14060/3000 cannot be regulated to be within the 4 seconds per day accuracy you want..or better..

karmatp · 10 July 2008, 11:53 PM

Larry, your amazing.

janc · 11 July 2008, 01:25 AM

Thank you Larry for that incisive reply which has confirmed my decision to send to RSC.
If I may say so its indepth knowledge and information of this type communicated on the site which makes this site so useful for all rolex owners .
Will let you know how I get on and any changes in the accuracy which result.It just bugs me that apparantly there is a 10 week turnaround at RSC in Bexley ,UK.What to do without my sub for this time??!!
Regards Jan.

AJF · 11 July 2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janc

Thank you Larry for that incisive reply which has confirmed my decision to send to RSC.
If I may say so its indepth knowledge and information of this type communicated on the site which makes this site so useful for all rolex owners .
Will let you know how I get on and any changes in the accuracy which result.It just bugs me that apparantly there is a 10 week turnaround at RSC in Bexley ,UK.What to do without my sub for this time??!!
Regards Jan.

Buy another one!

AJF

MartinK · 26 July 2008, 02:14 AM

Just a query...I have a 14060 (M serial COSC/RBR) I bought new from a AD 4 weeks ago. It's losing about 8 seconds a week.

Do they "bed in"...will this change as the watch is used more and more???

Tools · 26 July 2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinK

Just a query...I have a 14060 (M serial COSC/RBR) I bought new from a AD 4 weeks ago. It's losing about 8 seconds a week.

Do they "bed in"...will this change as the watch is used more and more???

You say it's lost 8 seconds in a week............. That is slightly over 1 second a day and is pretty amazing.. It's only 6 minutes in a year.......

To answer your question.....Most Rolex watches seem to speed up a bit after they are a month or two old and hold that for several more years.. So you have the potential for a watch that will get more accurate over time..

ROGERB · 26 July 2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinK

Just a query...I have a 14060 (M serial COSC/RBR) I bought new from a AD 4 weeks ago. It's losing about 8 seconds a week.

Do they "bed in"...will this change as the watch is used more and more???

That is spectacular accuracy..be happy
R

MartinK · 29 July 2008, 01:40 AM

Thanks guys. In 6 weeks of ownership, it's gained just over 30 seconds, so it appears to be improving. I am very happy!

My 10-year-old 16233 gains ~2 minutes per month, but as I have to change the date at the end of most months, any time changes are done at that point (of course you don't change the date on a 14060) so it's less noticeable...

mike · 29 July 2008, 10:59 AM

Wonderful accuracy Martin.

Larry is spot on. My experience has been Rolex will speed up slightly over time.

Bond, James Bond · 29 July 2008, 11:35 AM

My last (2008 model) 14060M ran 1-2 secs/day fast for first week, then jumped to 10 secs/day fast, where it stabilized. I was lying on side at night, so true speed up may have been worse.
My 1995 Submariner ran 5 secs/day fast, though I didn't know then about lying it on it's side at night (supposed to cause some secs/day loss).
I think I read somewhere (someone else here will know better) the target spec is -2 to +4 secs/day..

MartinK · 30 July 2008, 10:46 PM

Apparently (lifted from pus4minus6 website): "The name Minus 4 PLUS 6 is derived from the Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres (COSC) standard deviation rate of -4 to +6 seconds over the first ten days of chronometer testing. Rolex watches have a self-imposed stricter standard of -1 to +5 seconds per day and hence the designation, "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" on the dial. With 86,400 seconds in a 24 hour period, a difference of +3 seconds per 24 hours is a deviation of 0.000035 (thirty five millionths) of it's daily run resulting in 99.99% accuracy."
http://www.minus4plus6.com/
I leave my watch flat on it's back overnight as this is apparently the way to "speed them up" a bit...

Trurolexer · 30 July 2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karmatp

Larry, your amazing.

X2!!!

10 July 2008, 10:24 PM	#1
janc Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Liverpool,UK Posts: 100	submariner 14060 V 14O60M .What sort of accuracy to expect? Ok Guys , If you have seen my previous threads you may recall I bought a non date 10 year old sub which was actually a 14060 .I believe the movement on this model was changed about 9 or 10 years ago and the non date became the 14060M. I am happy with the watch but it is running between 8 and 9 seconds a day slow. I can live with this but would prefer if it was more like say 4 to 5 at most. What I am wondering is whether 8 to 9 seconds slow is par for the course anyway for the( older) movement of my watch .I was going to send it for service to Rolex but there wouldnt be much point (and just cost me £250)unless they could actually get the accuracy to the level I would prefer? Sorry for the waffly nature of this thread but has anyone got any specialist knowledge of this area? Regards Jan.

10 July 2008, 11:03 PM	#2
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 DATE-JUST41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,254	The 14060 has the Rolex 3000 movement which was first introduced in ~1990 and then modified slightly to become the 3130 in the 14060M. (M for Modified) The main differences for your movement is that the 3000 used a balance cock to hold the balance and hairspring in place (the 3130 has a full balance bridge), and it used a flat hairspring rather than the Rolex signature Breguet overcoil. This modification brought the 3000 into line with the rest of the Rolex movements with these "signature" parts. These changes added stability to the movement, but not necessarily accuracy. Many very fine movements have a balance cock and flat hairspring such as the Omega Seamaster cal. 1120 COSC movement. There is no reason that your 14060/3000 cannot be regulated to be within the 4 seconds per day accuracy you want..or better.. __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

29 July 2008, 11:35 AM	#11
Bond, James Bond Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Real Name: Nigel Location: USA Watch: 14060M Z Posts: 36	14060m My last (2008 model) 14060M ran 1-2 secs/day fast for first week, then jumped to 10 secs/day fast, where it stabilized. I was lying on side at night, so true speed up may have been worse. My 1995 Submariner ran 5 secs/day fast, though I didn't know then about lying it on it's side at night (supposed to cause some secs/day loss). I think I read somewhere (someone else here will know better) the target spec is -2 to +4 secs/day..

10 July 2008, 11:53 PM	#3
karmatp "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Trevor Location: Arizona Posts: 5,740	Larry, your amazing.

11 July 2008, 01:25 AM	#4
janc Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Liverpool,UK Posts: 100	Thank you Larry for that incisive reply which has confirmed my decision to send to RSC. If I may say so its indepth knowledge and information of this type communicated on the site which makes this site so useful for all rolex owners . Will let you know how I get on and any changes in the accuracy which result.It just bugs me that apparantly there is a 10 week turnaround at RSC in Bexley ,UK.What to do without my sub for this time??!! Regards Jan.

26 July 2008, 02:14 AM	#6
MartinK "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Silverdale Watch: 16233 & 14060M Posts: 44	Just a query...I have a 14060 (M serial COSC/RBR) I bought new from a AD 4 weeks ago. It's losing about 8 seconds a week. Do they "bed in"...will this change as the watch is used more and more???

29 July 2008, 01:40 AM	#9
MartinK "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Silverdale Watch: 16233 & 14060M Posts: 44	Thanks guys. In 6 weeks of ownership, it's gained just over 30 seconds, so it appears to be improving. I am very happy! My 10-year-old 16233 gains ~2 minutes per month, but as I have to change the date at the end of most months, any time changes are done at that point (of course you don't change the date on a 14060) so it's less noticeable...

29 July 2008, 10:59 AM	#10
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	Wonderful accuracy Martin. Larry is spot on. My experience has been Rolex will speed up slightly over time.

30 July 2008, 10:46 PM	#12
MartinK "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Silverdale Watch: 16233 & 14060M Posts: 44	Apparently (lifted from pus4minus6 website): "The name Minus 4 PLUS 6 is derived from the Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres (COSC) standard deviation rate of -4 to +6 seconds over the first ten days of chronometer testing. Rolex watches have a self-imposed stricter standard of -1 to +5 seconds per day and hence the designation, "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" on the dial. With 86,400 seconds in a 24 hour period, a difference of +3 seconds per 24 hours is a deviation of 0.000035 (thirty five millionths) of it's daily run resulting in 99.99% accuracy." http://www.minus4plus6.com/ I leave my watch flat on it's back overnight as this is apparently the way to "speed them up" a bit...

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