Opinions on a 1970 presidential solid gold 1803

[Canook]

Ok I popped into one of my local grey dealers and he has a couple of vintage watches that he's been sitting on for a while. Now with the low dollar here in Malaysia it seems to make the price attractive... in saying that I'm not up to speed on older watch prices...... I've looked on chrono 24 and eBay but I usually take the prices on there as what they think they can get not necessarily what they are worth.
The watch is circa 1970 in very good condition, what appears to be normal bracelet stretch (not a hidden clasp style) and the dial seems to be delaminating around the edges and between some of the sticks
He's offered it to me for @$6000 usd
So factoring in a new dial @$1k for a genuine used in good condition and maybe $200-$400 to get the bracelet redone by the guy in Hong Kong does this seem like a bargain or best paying the extra for a better condition one ?
I can prob live with the bracelet to an extent but the dial will bother me
Opinions? Worth it?
Expert opinions welcome.....

It will also come with a 1 year inhouse warranty

[vintagehartmann]

I think the dial would bother you.

I could see other 1803 going for $4,500 or $5,000 head only. The presidential bracelet itself is expensive.

The dial would bother me, and for that I would wait for another one in better condition IMO.

[Canook]

now ive got home and did a bit of research it appears based on that serial number its a 1977 not a 1971... sound right? then if its a 77 it shouldnt have plexiglass dial as that came in about 1974?
im just going off what i can find on the net as im in no way a expert in this area

if i can talk him down what do you think is a fair price allowing that ill prob change the dial.. they are fairly common on fleabay and i can get a decent one for $800-$1100

[Snow-Dweller]

Michael Young in Hong Kong will charge something like $1200 to do a gold bracelet.

[Canook]

Originally Posted by Snow-Dweller

Michael Young in Hong Kong will charge something like $1200 to do a gold bracelet.

i found an old post where the guy paid $400... however it was stainless and a few years ago.....hmm not looking like a viable option then

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by Canook

now ive got home and did a bit of research it appears based on that serial number its a 1977 not a 1971... sound right? then if its a 77 it shouldnt have plexiglass dial as that came in about 1974?
im just going off what i can find on the net as im in no way a expert in this area

if i can talk him down what do you think is a fair price allowing that ill prob change the dial.. they are fairly common on fleabay and i can get a decent one for $800-$1100

Unsure of where you get the your info 1977. Should have plexiglass if it's a 1803


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[Canook]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

Unsure of where you get the your info 1977. Should have plexiglass if it's a 1803


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http://www.oysterworld.de/production-dates.html
lookinig at the serial number on the hang tag being a 5xxxxxx based on the info from the link above... i could be reading it wrong?
it def has plexiglass on it......

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Canook

http://www.oysterworld.de/production-dates.html
lookinig at the serial number on the hang tag being a 5xxxxxx based on the info from the link above... i could be reading it wrong?
it def has plexiglass on it......

Then its all good.

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by Canook

http://www.oysterworld.de/production-dates.html

lookinig at the serial number on the hang tag being a 5xxxxxx based on the info from the link above... i could be reading it wrong?

it def has plexiglass on it......

Then it's correct


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[Canook]

according to that site they introduced sapphire in 1974.... hence my confusion?

[Lamone]

Nice 1803, USD6000 is a fair price for a 1803. For Daydates, sapphire crystals came in the late 70s (78/79) with the introduction of the 18038.

[Canook]

Ok that's good to know.... I guess I have to work out weather I can live with the bracelet or commit to spending the money on it..
So at this stage it would cost me $5900 as it sits or about $6900 with a new dial....
I'll give it some thought.....

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by Canook

according to that site they introduced sapphire in 1974.... hence my confusion?

Don't believe sites is the moral of the story on a day date it was introduced late 1977 when the new 18038 was released no 1803 has sapphire Crystal.


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[Canook]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

Don't believe sites is the moral of the story on a day date it was introduced late 1977 when the new 18038 was released no 1803 has sapphire Crystal.


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You mean to tell me that because its on the internet it may not be true?
This is why i ask the experts here lol!

After some extensive reading it seems that 1803 is not such a desirable model unless it pristine and alot of people rather then repair end up scrapping them for parts or the gold content..... disappointing.... but knowing its going to need up to $2k to restore it i have found a few good variants for about that money.

So unless he's prepared to drop the price to compensate for the extra outlay it then ill prob give it a miss.

I have noticed the price for these older ones are all over the place, i'd say some people think they are highly valuable because they are solid gold and vintage whereas others look at them as an old watch that has an update version (18038) that looks the same with a better movement and sapphire for similar money.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Canook

. . .

I have noticed the price for these older ones are all over the place, i'd say some people think they are highly valuable because they are solid gold and vintage whereas others look at them as an old watch that has an update version (18038) that looks the same with a better movement and sapphire for similar money.

That's the way it always is,there is no list-price for vintage. You decide what you want to pay for a certain model, including what you want to put into it to bring it up to a certain standard.

At the high end you would want a mint example, at the lower end you will accept and compromise.

Keep in mind though, if somebody does not buy and restore a watch, it's just a hunk of metal. Sometimes we accept that we may invest more into a certain watch above it's "market value" because it's the watch we want, or it's just part of the way we are wired.

For others, everything is measured in dollar and cents; either view is perfectly valid..

[Canook]

Originally Posted by Tools

That's the way it always is,there is no list-price for vintage. You decide what you want to pay for a certain model, including what you want to put into it to bring it up to a certain standard.

At the high end you would want a mint example, at the lower end you will accept and compromise.

Keep in mind though, if somebody does not buy and restore a watch, it's just a hunk of metal. Sometimes we accept that we may invest more into a certain watch above it's "market value" because it's the watch we want, or it's just part of the way we are wired.

For others, everything is measured in dollar and cents; either view is perfectly valid..

Im not looking at it for resale really.. but its nice to know that you wont do your money on it in the event you need to move it. Its also the the hassle of fixing up the little bits (time and money) versus just paying the extra and getting a good example....
Ive go a Datejust TT on jubilee but the bracelet is like new with zero stretch so im not sure how id cope having a badly stretched one or weather id accept it based on its a 40+ year old watch and its to be expected

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by Canook

You mean to tell me that because its on the internet it may not be true?

This is why i ask the experts here lol!



After some extensive reading it seems that 1803 is not such a desirable model unless it pristine and alot of people rather then repair end up scrapping them for parts or the gold content..... disappointing.... but knowing its going to need up to $2k to restore it i have found a few good variants for about that money.



So unless he's prepared to drop the price to compensate for the extra outlay it then ill prob give it a miss.



I have noticed the price for these older ones are all over the place, i'd say some people think they are highly valuable because they are solid gold and vintage whereas others look at them as an old watch that has an update version (18038) that looks the same with a better movement and sapphire for similar money.

A lot of junk on the net. Of course not all is rubbish. When it comes to day dates this is my specialty, I collect and love this model. That watch is not the best deal, but not bad either. With 1803 a lot depends on band condition be if it's a rare dial. Cheers


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[Canook]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

A lot of junk on the net. Of course not all is rubbish. When it comes to day dates this is my specialty, I collect and love this model. That watch is not the best deal, but not bad either. With 1803 a lot depends on band condition be if it's a rare dial. Cheers


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Yeah i think ill give it a miss... delamination on the dial will bother me and the tritium has perished so i can only assume its been cleaned out or has gone into the mech of the watch.... and the band is very well stretched.
$25000rm = $7733 aud at today's rate plus whatever my card fees would be and so on... it will add up to be prob not worth it long run to get it to where im happy with it.

maybe ill go buy the sub-c no date i was just offered for $6800aud instead lol!!

cheers for the help guys

[dpa94114]

1803s are awesome watches - but not everyone loves them.

If you're torn between an 1803 and a sub, then I'd say you need to think a little bit more about what you really like (other than a good price).

[motoikkyu]

I've been watching the 1803s but my conclusions and observations may be at odds with some of yours. These were a $2500 watch (head only) before the price of gold jumped. Now the average for head-only seems to be $4000-5000, premium for WG. The bracelets with the non-hidden clasp are worth less than the hidden-clasp models. The Wide Boy dial only adds value with correct Wide Boy hands. I don't think I've ever seen an intact bracelet for less than $2600, they are often in rough condition in the low end: stretched and even mangled.
I feel like the prices went up briefly because they were selling well in the East, but regime change in China resulted in lowered demand as some potential buyers were spooked about ostentatious show of wealth or success. Also, a number of buyers were disenchanted by the slow-set tedium.

[Canook]

Originally Posted by dpa94114

1803s are awesome watches - but not everyone loves them.

If you're torn between an 1803 and a sub, then I'd say you need to think a little bit more about what you really like (other than a good price).

Ive got a SD and a Hulk and had many subs so im not torn between anything... ive got a TT DJ Jubilee and have always liked the idea of having a full PM rolex.... hence if the price was right id grab it, but alas after reading the posts and recommendations here its prob not such a bargain....
The bracelet isnt mangled but it is stretched, it doesnt bother me except at the lugs where it looks stretched(rest of the links dont look so bad with small gaps in my opinion)

Ill pop in there on the weekend and see if hes prepared to drop any more off it .... then it might be worthwhile

[rillesnille]

6000USD I would say is a very good price for an 1803. Cheapest on Chrono24 at the moment is 7000USD if I am not mistaken, and that has an ugly aftermarket dial.
I sold my old 1803 in great condition on a good bracelet for >8000USD, albeit 6 months ago.

Needless to say, I would buy it on the spot!

And 1000USD for a dial is waaay too much. Dont they cost ~550-600USD at AD? Not like regular 1803 dials appreciate over time....

[Canook]

Originally Posted by rillesnille

6000USD I would say is a very good price for an 1803. Cheapest on Chrono24 at the moment is 7000USD if I am not mistaken, and that has an ugly aftermarket dial.
I sold my old 1803 in great condition on a good bracelet for >8000USD, albeit 6 months ago.

Needless to say, I would buy it on the spot!

And 1000USD for a dial is waaay too much. Dont they cost ~550-600USD at AD? Not like regular 1803 dials appreciate over time....

i think the problem is because of its age it has the "pie pan" dial which is harder to find hence they command a higher price... normal day date dials are quite cheap.... from what ive read you cannot put an update dial in one either... id be happy for anyone to confirm this?

[rillesnille]

Originally Posted by Canook

i think the problem is because of its age it has the "pie pan" dial which is harder to find hence they command a higher price... normal day date dials are quite cheap.... from what ive read you cannot put an update dial in one either... id be happy for anyone to confirm this?

I have a very hard time seeing that AD wouldnt have correct spare parts... i.e. "pie-pan" dials(as all 1803s have?).... and no, dials(mostly) only fit the original movement, not the same movement in 18038 as 1803...
ADs have much more than most think, an example are the onyx dials that cost 2-2.5k $ at AD but 5-6 k$ on the internet...

[motoikkyu]

The flat dial like the 18038 won't fit the 1803. There are a great many more original 18038 dials available than 1803, but that does not make the 1803 dial rare. You can even get a nice Wide Boy (wider indices/chapters) but finding the hands is a bit of a chore. I think I bought my last Wide Boy dial for around $450 US.

[onthedial]

@Canook
If you've examined the movement, analyzed the dial with a loupe and verified that the bracelet has all the correct hallmarks, I wouldn't hesitate buying at 6K. Word of warning: YG 1803's are frequently installed with fake Rolex bracelets--many varieties appear quite legit, at first, until thorough inspection reveals the inconsistencies.
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