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Atl · 8 March 2010, 01:40 PM

All,
First thanks for taking the time to help us/me with our problems and questions. Here is mine:

Background: 2009 SS Sub Date, purchased from my AD in Sepetember 09. After a month, I noticed it ran 5-6 seconds slow per 24 hours. I had it sent to Rolex in Dallas after talking them to re-regulate, and they agreed, and did. After I got it back, if you stored it face up overnight it was losing one second per 24 hours. I was happy.
Last night, after not wearing it for a week, because my Pepsi GMT came back from Dallas after it's 5 year clean and polish, and I had been wearing it instead, I fully wound it (the Sub), and set the time to the US official time, and this is important, I set it crown down overnight, or, on it's side, crown down. This afternoon, after about 16 hours, it has lost 14 seconds! I will: re-set it to US official time and leave it face up tonight to see what it does, and I am calling Dallas RSC to discuss. But if any of you had any info I can give them when I call, PLEASE do so. I really don't understand this.

My question is, why would it lose almost a second an hour being placed "crown down" overnight??? My GMT really does not care very much which way you place it, it's usually is a constant -1 second slow per 24, no matter how you place it.

What could be wrong with my new Sub? It has not been dropped, abused, or old. It's only 5 months old.

Thanks in advance,
David

watchmaker · 9 March 2010, 12:06 AM

Without inspecting the watch, and assuming it only loses that badly crow down, then i would start by checking the hairspring centreing. Sounds like it is badly centred, thus causing a positional error. To fix this, the hairspring needs a tweek, and then re regulated.

Atl · 9 March 2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Without inspecting the watch, and assuming it only loses that badly crow down, then i would start by checking the hairspring centreing. Sounds like it is badly centred, thus causing a positional error. To fix this, the hairspring needs a tweek, and then re regulated.

Thanks Watchmaker,
A further update, I left the watch fully wound in the "face up" position overnight, and not in a winder, (I don't own a winder), where previously it was only losing 1 second per 24 hours in that position. As of 18 hours, it has lost 12 seconds. So, crown down -14 seconds per 18 hours, face up, -12 seconds per 18 hours.

Dallas RSC is sending me a shipping box, and says they will fix it. With your permission, I would like to include your thoughts as to what you think is wrong for them to read. Is that okay?

David

Rikki · 9 March 2010, 10:34 AM

Could also be a poising problem, also balance staff could have been damaged somehow a bent pivot could easily cause these things to happen. New or not the checklist of things to look at is extensive,you try to eliminate everything you can and what is left is usually the problem.

watchmaker · 10 March 2010, 04:54 AM

You are more than welcome to quote me on what I have said, however as Rikki has mentioned, there are many things to look at. Given this watch is going back again, or a "return job", you can rest assured they will find whatever problem is causing your poor timekeeping, as giving the whole watch the once over, just to make sure you dont have to send it back to them again.

In service centres, a watchmakers quality of work is measured by the percentage of return jobs he/she receives, so you can bet your watch will be treated like its priceless.

Atl · 10 March 2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchmaker

You are more than welcome to quote me on what I have said, however as Rikki has mentioned, there are many things to look at. Given this watch is going back again, or a "return job", you can rest assured they will find whatever problem is causing your poor timekeeping, as giving the whole watch the once over, just to make sure you dont have to send it back to them again.

In service centres, a watchmakers quality of work is measured by the percentage of return jobs he/she receives, so you can bet your watch will be treated like its priceless.

Why I said "vexing" is, the watch has lead a plush life, never dropped, no sports, nothing but going to my desk at work and back home. So why would a watch go from -1 a day to -14, without it being dropped, or shaken hard, or god knows what else, which never happened? Totally strange.

Atl · 10 March 2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchmaker

You are more than welcome to quote me on what I have said, however as Rikki has mentioned, there are many things to look at. Given this watch is going back again, or a "return job", you can rest assured they will find whatever problem is causing your poor timekeeping, as giving the whole watch the once over, just to make sure you dont have to send it back to them again.

In service centres, a watchmakers quality of work is measured by the percentage of return jobs he/she receives, so you can bet your watch will be treated like its priceless.

I hope so, and I have received such great service from Dallas in the past.

Atl · 10 March 2010, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Without inspecting the watch, and assuming it only loses that badly crow down, then i would start by checking the hairspring centreing. Sounds like it is badly centred, thus causing a positional error. To fix this, the hairspring needs a tweek, and then re regulated.

Well, we know now it's screwed up in two positions, face up and crown down, and I assume no matter which position it's in, It's screwed up.

That said, what is a hairspring, is that the same as a mainspring? How do you tweak it? would you not just replace it? How would it get off center? Is this a common issue?

watchmaker · 10 March 2010, 08:56 AM

The hairspring sits on top of the balance wheel, and it is this spring that provides the accurate timekeeping. The spring itself is made up of many concentric coils, and the spring thickness is similar to, and can be thinner than a human hair, hence the name.

The spring can become off centred through a knock, drop, but much more commonly is that it was not adjusted correcty the last time it was examined. Everytime you remove the balance, a good watchmaker should inspect the hairspring to ensure that it is flat (parallel to the balance) and centred once it is placed back in the watch.

This process should be carried out, even on brand new parts as they are not always 100% perfect fresh out the pack. However again, a good watchmaker can reduce the cost of replacing it by having the skill to properly repair damaged hairsprings.

Rikki · 10 March 2010, 01:03 PM

A few weeks back someone posted an old film from the 40's or 50's from Hamilton and it is a great look into how a watch works in a very large format. Actually a pretty cool film. It's about 10 minute or so long. Show's how a mainspring works what a hairspring is and all the gears inbetween. Rik

Atl · 11 March 2010, 08:27 AM

Thank you both for your advice and knowledge.

CaveDiver · 11 March 2010, 09:03 AM

I was told a hairsping asm. is kinda expensive. Oh, and watch's avatar pic is a hairspring

Atl · 17 March 2010, 09:21 AM

Just sent to Dallas RSC today, I wrote a detailed letter, and included all the suggestions you guys posted about what might be wrong with it. I am hoping it will help narrow things down for the tech that works on my watch. Did I read correctly, that the last guy that regulated my watch will be assigned my watch to fix? Whomever that was? I am still completely shocked a 6 month old Sub could be screwed up like this. After 8 rolexes in my life, not one has ever had to go in for a fix, much less two times! I pray it comes back and does not require a third visit, the Registered Mail charges are killing me, not to mention being in the shop more than my wrist!

A lemon Rolex, who knew they existed??? Just my luck.

8 March 2010, 01:40 PM	#1
Atl Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Real Name: David Location: Sandy Springs, Ga Watch: GMT II, new Subbie Posts: 937	Vexing problem All, First thanks for taking the time to help us/me with our problems and questions. Here is mine: Background: 2009 SS Sub Date, purchased from my AD in Sepetember 09. After a month, I noticed it ran 5-6 seconds slow per 24 hours. I had it sent to Rolex in Dallas after talking them to re-regulate, and they agreed, and did. After I got it back, if you stored it face up overnight it was losing one second per 24 hours. I was happy. Last night, after not wearing it for a week, because my Pepsi GMT came back from Dallas after it's 5 year clean and polish, and I had been wearing it instead, I fully wound it (the Sub), and set the time to the US official time, and this is important, I set it crown down overnight, or, on it's side, crown down. This afternoon, after about 16 hours, it has lost 14 seconds! I will: re-set it to US official time and leave it face up tonight to see what it does, and I am calling Dallas RSC to discuss. But if any of you had any info I can give them when I call, PLEASE do so. I really don't understand this. My question is, why would it lose almost a second an hour being placed "crown down" overnight??? My GMT really does not care very much which way you place it, it's usually is a constant -1 second slow per 24, no matter how you place it. What could be wrong with my new Sub? It has not been dropped, abused, or old. It's only 5 months old. Thanks in advance, David

9 March 2010, 12:06 AM	#2
watchmaker TechXpert Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Scott Location: London Posts: 2,240	Without inspecting the watch, and assuming it only loses that badly crow down, then i would start by checking the hairspring centreing. Sounds like it is badly centred, thus causing a positional error. To fix this, the hairspring needs a tweek, and then re regulated.

9 March 2010, 10:34 AM	#4
Rikki TechXpert Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: Rik Dietel Location: Seminole Fla Watch: 5512 s/s Sub Posts: 1,818	Could also be a poising problem, also balance staff could have been damaged somehow a bent pivot could easily cause these things to happen. New or not the checklist of things to look at is extensive,you try to eliminate everything you can and what is left is usually the problem.

10 March 2010, 04:54 AM	#5
watchmaker TechXpert Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Scott Location: London Posts: 2,240	You are more than welcome to quote me on what I have said, however as Rikki has mentioned, there are many things to look at. Given this watch is going back again, or a "return job", you can rest assured they will find whatever problem is causing your poor timekeeping, as giving the whole watch the once over, just to make sure you dont have to send it back to them again. In service centres, a watchmakers quality of work is measured by the percentage of return jobs he/she receives, so you can bet your watch will be treated like its priceless.

10 March 2010, 08:56 AM	#9
watchmaker TechXpert Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Scott Location: London Posts: 2,240	The hairspring sits on top of the balance wheel, and it is this spring that provides the accurate timekeeping. The spring itself is made up of many concentric coils, and the spring thickness is similar to, and can be thinner than a human hair, hence the name. The spring can become off centred through a knock, drop, but much more commonly is that it was not adjusted correcty the last time it was examined. Everytime you remove the balance, a good watchmaker should inspect the hairspring to ensure that it is flat (parallel to the balance) and centred once it is placed back in the watch. This process should be carried out, even on brand new parts as they are not always 100% perfect fresh out the pack. However again, a good watchmaker can reduce the cost of replacing it by having the skill to properly repair damaged hairsprings.

10 March 2010, 01:03 PM	#10
Rikki TechXpert Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: Rik Dietel Location: Seminole Fla Watch: 5512 s/s Sub Posts: 1,818	A few weeks back someone posted an old film from the 40's or 50's from Hamilton and it is a great look into how a watch works in a very large format. Actually a pretty cool film. It's about 10 minute or so long. Show's how a mainspring works what a hairspring is and all the gears inbetween. Rik

11 March 2010, 08:27 AM	#11
Atl Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Real Name: David Location: Sandy Springs, Ga Watch: GMT II, new Subbie Posts: 937	Thank you both for your advice and knowledge.

11 March 2010, 09:03 AM	#12
CaveDiver "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 1,075	I was told a hairsping asm. is kinda expensive. Oh, and watch's avatar pic is a hairspring

17 March 2010, 09:21 AM	#13
Atl Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Real Name: David Location: Sandy Springs, Ga Watch: GMT II, new Subbie Posts: 937	Just sent to Dallas RSC today, I wrote a detailed letter, and included all the suggestions you guys posted about what might be wrong with it. I am hoping it will help narrow things down for the tech that works on my watch. Did I read correctly, that the last guy that regulated my watch will be assigned my watch to fix? Whomever that was? I am still completely shocked a 6 month old Sub could be screwed up like this. After 8 rolexes in my life, not one has ever had to go in for a fix, much less two times! I pray it comes back and does not require a third visit, the Registered Mail charges are killing me, not to mention being in the shop more than my wrist! A lemon Rolex, who knew they existed??? Just my luck.

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