Daytona - known issues with the movement

[ScoobyPower]

Hi guys,

I am new to the Forum, although have been lurking for a while, another UK based user. Gotta love all the info I have got from reading all the posts up here, I wouldn't know where I'd be without all the stuff on here!

I've got a question that I hope people will be able to answer - I'm off to see a Daytona soon, a private sale.

It's a 116509, SS, although has a fault, which he states is a main spring fault, he has been quoted £620 by RSC to fix.

My question, really is, is this a common problem, unusual, anything else I should look for, or potential problems?

I have asked for detailed pics, and can verify the serial number, and has the guarantee card, box and papers etc.... Basically anything to help me feel more comfortable this is a genuine sale?

Thanks for your help.

[bayerische]

Hi there,

I'm always skeptical to people owning expensive watches/or other expensive items, and then selling them broken...

I mean, the fix is not *that* expensive, and the seller would surely get more money for a recently serviced 100% functioning watch rather than selling it with a fault.

[bayerische]

Double post, sorry

[Jackxv]

Originally Posted by ScoobyPower

Hi guys,

I am new to the Forum, although have been lurking for a while, another UK based user. Gotta love all the info I have got from reading all the posts up here, I wouldn't know where I'd be without all the stuff on here!

I've got a question that I hope people will be able to answer - I'm off to see a Daytona soon, a private sale.

It's a 116509, SS, although has a fault, which he states is a main spring fault, he has been quoted £620 by RSC to fix.

My question, really is, is this a common problem, unusual, anything else I should look for, or potential problems?

I have asked for detailed pics, and can verify the serial number, and has the guarantee card, box and papers etc.... Basically anything to help me feel more comfortable this is a genuine sale?

Thanks for your help.

The reference for SS is 16520/116520.

There are fake CC guarantees, boxes and a working fake movement around.

Watch out!!

[ScoobyPower]

He states that it is his father's watch, has no incentives to get it fixed as he doesn't 'do' watches.

[Starwalker]

Maybe he's one of those guys that are 2 lazy to get things fixed, and would just rather not bother with the effort....and the extra cash, thousands on a watch and x-amount to fix it....i know people like that. However, DEFINITELY get it authenticated before parting with any cash at all.

Havent heard of any issues with the movement.

[ScoobyPower]

Originally Posted by Jackxv

The reference for SS is 16520/116520.

Can I get confirmation that this is true?

[bayerische]

I would have the service quote authenticated too.

In fact I think I would have it quoted at another AD just to be sure. If indeed the service would be £620, I would pay him £1000 under the price for a similar not in need of service.

[RJC]

Originally Posted by ScoobyPower

Can I get confirmation that this is true?

A current SS Daytona is 116520

Ref 116509 referes to an 18ct White gold Daytona.

[bayerische]

According to the Rolex iPhone app, a 116509 is a Cosmograph Daytona in white gold, with a black/red dial. In current production.

[ScoobyPower]

Originally Posted by bayerische

I would have the service quote authenticated too.

In fact I think I would have it quoted at another AD just to be sure. If indeed the service would be £620, I would pay him £1000 under the price for a similar not in need of service.

Due to his work, he cannot get to an AD during work hours.

I can get my local watch dealer (not an AD) to come with me, he (the seller) has no issues with that. Although my dealer stated that he wouldn't do much more than ensure that the numbers matched, has all the correct paperwork etc, which he has looked at the pics and stated that he's pretty sure it's genuine.

The price that he is stating, is well below the £1000 of a simlar working watch you suggest.

[TheBluePrince]

116509 is the White Gold model. About 3x more expensive than the SS model. They do look the same though. If the seller thinks it's SS and is charging you the price for a (broken) SS model and it's genuine then you are going to do very, very well out of this deal.

Beware though, even if you buy it and it's genuine, and then you send it back to Rolex to be repaired....but it's stolen.......you lose the watch, you've lost your money and Rolex will contact the police who will come after you for handling/receiving stolen goods.

[bayerische]

Again, I can't understand someone not wanting a full price for their watch. (If you paid for it yourself)

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

116509 is the White Gold model. About 3x more expensive than the SS model. They do look the same though. If the seller thinks it's SS and is charging you the price for a (broken) SS model and it's genuine then you are going to do very, very well out of this deal.

Now that might also be the case.
I would be very careful.

[DRAWTOOL]

From Wikipedia:
Model number 116509 white gold silver dial Rolex Daytona. ... The movement used was a manual wind Valjoux cal. 72, named the Rolex Cal. 722

Scoob, this dosen't look good!

[ScoobyPower]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

116509 is the White Gold model. About 3x more expensive than the SS model. They do look the same though. If the seller thinks it's SS and is charging you the price for a (broken) SS model and it's genuine then you are going to do very, very well out of this deal.

Beware though, even if you buy it and it's genuine, and then you send it back to Rolex to be repaired....but it's stolen.......you lose the watch, you've lost your money and Rolex will contact the police who will come after you for handling/receiving stolen goods.

Could it be a WG case with a SS strap? As the bracelet is numbered 78430, and has a silver arabic dial.

He also has a certificate from 'watchsearcher' to show that it is not reported stolen.

I was quite dubious when I first saw this for sale. The seller has answered all my questions that I have, and sent all pics I have requested, so I was a lot less dubious. But now I am back to my dubious thinking stage!

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by DRAWTOOL

From Wikipedia:
Model number 116509 white gold silver dial Rolex Daytona. ... The movement used was a manual wind Valjoux cal. 72, named the Rolex Cal. 722

Scoob, this dosen't look good!

That was the case until about 1988....then it had a Zenith movement, now it has the Rolex 4130.

[Erix]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Hi there,

I'm always skeptical to people owning expensive watches/or other expensive items, and then selling them broken...

I mean, the fix is not *that* expensive, and the seller would surely get more money for a recently serviced 100% functioning watch rather than selling it with a fault.

x2.

[DRAWTOOL]

Originally Posted by ScoobyPower

Could it be a WG case with a SS strap? As the bracelet is numbered 78430, and has a silver arabic dial.

He also has a certificate from 'watchsearcher' to show that it is not reported stolen.

I was quite dubious when I first saw this for sale. The seller has answered all my questions that I have, and sent all pics I have requested, so I was a lot less dubious. But now I am back to my dubious thinking stage!

Can you post those pictures?

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by ScoobyPower

Could it be a WG case with a SS strap? As the bracelet is
numbered 78430, and has a silver arabic dial.

He also has a certificate from 'watchsearcher' to show that it is not reported stolen.

I was quite dubious when I first saw this for sale. The seller has answered all
my questions that I have, and sent all pics I have requested, so I was a lot less dubious. But now I am back to my dubious thinking stage!

No, WG watch comes with WG bracelet. I don't think 78430 is the right code for that model though.

Watchsercher is nothing to do with Rolex, Rolex do not use or rely on it. The watch not being on there doesn't mean anything i'm afraid.

[ScoobyPower]

I am at work, so I can't host any pics.

Can a mod / trusted member PM me an email address that I can forward some of these pics to them, and, if appropriate put them on here (and by the sounds of it the WATCHOUT forum too!!!)

[Jackxv]

Just relax

The 4 digit daytona's came with valjoux 72X movement, all manual wound

All the 5 digit Daytona's 16509,16519 etc came with the Rolex 4030, Zenith baseplate automatic chrono movement.

The 6 digits came with the Rolex inhouse 4130 movement.

If the watch is WG it should be either (1)16509 , 16509 rather rare
then they should have a white gold bracelet

(1)16519 are the WG ones with a leather strap

(1)16520 are the only SS Daytonas


Because there are almost perfect replicas with matching paperwork insist on having the watch authenticated.
The replicas are known to have problems because it's rather difficult to have the seconds run on the dial at 6 (11 gears). This requires a lot of the mainspring.

Act real carefull on this!!!


Jack

[DRAWTOOL]

PM sent

[ScoobyPower]

Originally Posted by DRAWTOOL

PM sent

I have emailed you the pics Mike.

Thanks for your help guys, I hope I can get to the bottom of this.

Regards

Viz

[DRAWTOOL]

Here they be Scoob

[Jackxv]

That's a fake watch, exactly as I described.

It's an Asian 7750 in a fake case and with fake bracelet.
It's got the false papers, the seconds@6 won't run because of the friction.

Though the movement is marked Daytona it is NOT Rolex, the 4130 (correct) caliber should have a bridge over the balance.

This is a well prepared scam!!

Don't buy!!


Jack

[Starwalker]

THAT IS FAKE!

For an F serial it should not have the Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rehaut, which was only introduced into the Z serial range.

It's a receipt for a SS, but the paper work is for a white gold....even the dial and the bezel are for a white gold watch......i would NOT touch it!

[ScoobyPower]

Thanks to Mikey for putting the pics up in superquick fashion (hope you get to work on time).

And thanks to all of you for your comments. I, for one, would never have known the diffrences in model code etc...

Keep your comments rolling in. I'm in half a mind to still meet this guy just to see what he has to say when I mention it's a fake.

[Jackxv]

Ask him he's the first owner of the watch, did he purchase it new?

He also might be scammed earlier


Jack

[ScoobyPower]

Originally Posted by Jackxv

Ask him he's the first owner of the watch, did he purchase it new?

He also might be scammed earlier


Jack

He has stated that it was his Dad's.

The things that made me dubious, initially were:

He stated he had no interest in watches so he had no reason to get it fixed. Although he knew that Rolex only gave the new style paperwork after 2004 (not the 'punched hole' type paper)

He also had all the relevant pics on hand to email me (ie braclet off, receipt, etc...) If he had no interest in watches, then how would he know to find these numbers, and be comfortable taking the bracelet off?

The price. £2750 (or around $4200).

Alarm bells were ringing then, but seeing all those docs kinda put my mind to rest, and especially he encouraged me to do the deal in a public place, he was ok with my watch dealer friend coming etc... Was reassuring, although I still had qualms, hence me posting.

And I'm glad I did. Lesson learnt for me, and hopefully others in a similar situation!!!