Lumes on vintage Rolexes

[Dinkhart]

Hi all,
I'm new to Rolexes generally and am wondering about what to look for with lumes on vintage models. I've seen a few watches with faded or missing lumes and I'm wondering if this is something I should avoid. As an example, here's a Datejust on Chrono:
https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/datej...-id7788412.htm
One of the lumes on the Datejust appears to be faded or missing at 1 o'clock. Is this the sort of thing buyers should avoid? Or is it a natural part of the aging process for lumes to fade? Do lumes ever disappear altogether from a dial, and if so, does that lower a watch's value/desirability?
Thanks.

[214270Explorer]

Lume on vintage watches is going to be Radium or Tritium. Either one is going to be long since dead as the lume material deteriorates.

Tritium has a half life of 12.3 years. My 1987 Oyster Perpetual Date lost its Tritium lume waaaaaay back.

Older lume was actually a mixture of a radioactive material and a phosphorescent material.

Modern lume such as Chromalight is not radioactive, merely a phosphorescent material.

Older lumes CAN and DO deteriorate a bit into a dust which is why you will notice some seems to have disappeared.

I will let others chime in for your last question.

[Dan S]

Lume will not be active on older watches as mentioned above. However, collectors prize dials and hands with attractive, intact, original lume, so missing lume does make a watch less desirable. How much less desirable? That depends a lot on the particular watch and collector.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Lume will not be active on older watches as mentioned above

Not necessarily. My 1966 5513 lume still glows, as did the lume on a 1966 1016 that I recently sold.

[roh123]

You would expect most 50-60’s lume to react in one way or the other. Almost all 60’s Rolex sport watches glow. At least until ~1967 something.

[photoguy]

My lume experience- my 1987 Sub's pearl still glows nicely and for hours, where the hands and dial plots fade pretty quickly quickly (though they still do have a little bit of initial glow).

[Dan S]

We should be more specific about the activity of the lume. When talking about activity, some people may be referring to the fact that the phosphor will transiently respond to visible or UV excitation, while others may be referring to the ongoing luminescence that is stimulated by radioactive decay of tritium or radium. I definitely agree that both of these are highly variable from watch to watch and era to era based on the particular phosphor material and the amount applied, etc.

In any case, maybe I misunderstood, but my reading of the OP's question was that he is primarily asking about the loss of lume material or its physical degradation ... not its activity. He can correct me if I'm misreading his post.

[roh123]

Ah.. Lume falling off is almost always due to handling. Very easy to damage lume plots on ie Datejusts, Day-Dates and Daytonas. These don’t collapse like lume plots on early sports models. Often they are damaged when the dial is taken out of the case. And yes, there is definetely a premium for dials with all dots intact. Some collectors care a lot and some care less if the lume is damaged. Personally I could live with it on a cheap watch but I would never accept it on let’s say a manual Daytona that costs a lot.

[Dinkhart]

Thanks, everyone. Very informative. Dan S, you are correct that I was referring to the physical condition of lume material rather than luminescence. Here's a question that occurs to me reading through the responses: if a lume is missing or degraded, is this more likely due to handling or deterioration into dust?

[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by Dinkhart

if a lume is missing or degraded, is this more likely due to handling or deterioration into dust?

My OPD has only half of one of the lume dots, and this was irrefutably due to age deterioration. I know this because the watch was never opened or serviced until years after this occurred. (Purchased new by me, so I was able to monitor it for decades).

Handling of the dial will expose the lumes to physical damage/loss. I do not know, however, how delicate any lume dots may be.

You would have to know of any previous service history of a particular watch, and there is likely no way to know if any physical lume loss is due to deterioration or physical damage. Doesn't matter anyway - if it is gone it is gone.

Perhaps a service person can chime in here with regard to how easily the lumes may be damaged.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Dinkhart

Thanks, everyone. Very informative. Dan S, you are correct that I was referring to the physical condition of lume material rather than luminescence. Here's a question that occurs to me reading through the responses: if a lume is missing or degraded, is this more likely due to handling or deterioration into dust?

I'll just give my own opinion here, but I think it's very hard to generalize about 50+ year-old watches. Each one has lived its own life. Some may have incurred damage due to handling, others may have had some moisture inside. All I can say is that pristine pieces do exist, so lume loss is not inevitable. And as been said already, the reason doesn't really matter - once it's gone, it's gone.

Again, this need not be a deal-breaker for you, just something to consider as part of valuation. You need to make your own decisions about aesthetics. And when we are talking about incredibly rare and old pieces, we are happy to find one in original condition, even with damaged lume. So it's all relative.

[Vincent65]

What's with the big, bold green font? Is it lume?

[Dinkhart]

Thanks again for everyone's input. As long as this thread is recent, I'd like also to ask a bit about identifying relumed dials. Do relumed plots take the same circular shape as original ones? Below is a 70s Datejust dial with a lume plot that doesn't quite line up with the minute markers; is this normal or suggestive of reluming?

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Dinkhart

Thanks again for everyone's input. As long as this thread is recent, I'd like also to ask a bit about identifying relumed dials. Do relumed plots take the same circular shape as original ones? Below is a 70s Datejust dial with a lume plot that doesn't quite line up with the minute markers; is this normal or suggestive of reluming?

The swiss only implies it is either an early 60’s dial or a redone dial. Hard to tell from that pic.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

What's with the big, bold green font? Is it lume?

I'm curious too

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by sillo38

I'm curious too

Rolex green font.

[Filipão]

Now on the subject, my father had all the radium removed from his Rolex(s).

Unfortunately, this now mine 6305 (1955) has had the treatment too.