Why are there so many rolex without certs?

[aaronch]

Probably been asked a million times before... I see so many rolexs for sale in the second hand market without certs. Is there any reason why this is the case? Most of the explanations seem to be that the owner lost it, but if I bought a 10k+ watch, u betcha life that I would be guarding the cert as much as the watch. And it's not only vintage watches too, I see alot of 1-2 year old watches that are missing certs. Is there something that I'm missing?


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[Nav01L]

ADs have often kept them to prevent flipping on hot models. That explains part of the younger watches...

[aaronch]

Thanks for your reply. What gives the AD the right to keep the cert tho? If I bought from an AD, I would definitely want the cert. Unless it's something to do with ADs offloading to gray market dealers?


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[Wobbly]

Originally Posted by aaronch

Thanks for your reply. What gives the AD the right to keep the cert tho? If I bought from an AD, I would definitely want the cert. Unless it's something to do with ADs offloading to gray market dealers?


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Things have changed, but last year in the UK, many AD’s kept the warranty card for a year to prevent flippers.

If you didn’t agree, they wouldn’t sell you the watch. Strange, but true.

[JSolution]

Some people just don’t care if buying the watch to keep it.

[Yess]

I thought Covid was trip.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Yess

I thought Covid was trip.

Can you explain this to me?

[steve099]

Not everyone is so fussy about a watch purchase, some just buy them and do not think twice about resale value....until they get into trouble.

Some are also stolen property, some papers get lost moving house...there are lots of reasons apart from the ones above.

I am currently missing a set of papers for a Jap sword, adds about $15K to its value but I am having trouble locating them, it happens after a few house and office moves.

[Rori]

All the above plus a possible fake.

[dan993]

I think with the older models people were not buying them thinking of future value so many times the papers were simply misplaced.

[Calatrava r]

The older watches just had two year warranties. If you buy the watch to keep and it is off warranty what difference does the warranty card make. Most older watches are sold without papers, lucky to get the box.

Its only in the last several years that people began flipping and selling quickly so they kept everything to get the best price.

[HogwldFLTR]

Certs past the warranty period up until recently were simply scrap paper without any real value. Only in a greed driven collector's reality does a scrap piece of paper hold value.

[Bluside]

The first thing my SO wanted to do when I bought her first Rolex was throw away the box and everything.

[Eric-London]

Originally Posted by Wobbly

Things have changed, but last year in the UK, many AD’s kept the warranty card for a year to prevent flippers.

If you didn’t agree, they wouldn’t sell you the watch. Strange, but true.

In the UK, the warranty cards were released a few months ago. The AD's here are no longer holding them.

[1William]

Some people do not want their names on cards that pass to others. Some are withheld by AD's to protect source identification in the secondary market. Others are lost, stolen or thrown away. I have no issue buying or owning a watch without the appropriate box and papers as long as it is authentic and I paid a reflective price.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by aaronch

Probably been asked a million times before... I see so many rolexs for sale in the second hand market without certs. Is there any reason why this is the case? Most of the explanations seem to be that the owner lost it, but if I bought a 10k+ watch, u betcha life that I would be guarding the cert as much as the watch.. . .

Most people buy watches to wear and toss all of the stuff that comes with it, others buy their watch, put it on, and wear it out of the shop.

The mania of keeping all of the bits and pieces is a relatively new phenomenon, but I would still say that the vast majority of watches will not have the old and obsolete papers or boxes.

The condition of the watch should still be paramount.

[dmhines]

Many pre-owned watches are sold wholesale at industry only trade shows. If you’ve seen the videos the majority of watches are sold in nothing but a plastic wrapper not the complete set. I’m thinking most complete sets are from private party trade-ins being immediately resold without going wholesale.

[iliketime]

to some people only the watch matters, the rest of it is rubbish.

[dontbeshort]

Originally Posted by aaronch

Thanks for your reply. What gives the AD the right to keep the cert tho? If I bought from an AD, I would definitely want the cert. Unless it's something to do with ADs offloading to gray market dealers?


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I am longing to own my 1st Rolex (pref a Black Sub Date). The AD would be welcome to keep all the packaging and all the certificates. I’d never sell it . I’d never take it off my wrist. In fact the AD can destroy all the docs as far as I’m concerned. In case there are any ADs listening out there ..... please please sell me one.

[csaltphoto]

I've seen a few Rolex purchases completed in AD's and in only one case did the person leave with the box. That was a TT sub for a young guy. The others were PM purchases and the person left with it on their wrist. Probably had the card in their wallet.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by aaronch

Probably been asked a million times before... I see so many rolexs for sale in the second hand market without certs. Is there any reason why this is the case? Most of the explanations seem to be that the owner lost it, but if I bought a 10k+ watch, u betcha life that I would be guarding the cert as much as the watch. And it's not only vintage watches too, I see alot of 1-2 year old watches that are missing certs. Is there something that I'm missing?


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I only buy complete sets with papers. For me the papers hold history provenance story and the dna of the watch. I love the background of each of my watches and therefore value the paper.


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[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by steve099

Not everyone is so fussy about a watch purchase, some just buy them and do not think twice about resale value....until they get into trouble.

Some are also stolen property, some papers get lost moving house...there are lots of reasons apart from the ones above.

I am currently missing a set of papers for a Jap sword, adds about $15K to its value but I am having trouble locating them, it happens after a few house and office moves.

Perhaps I think that you meant to say Japanese there.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

I've seen a few Rolex purchases completed in AD's and in only one case did the person leave with the box. That was a TT sub for a young guy. The others were PM purchases and the person left with it on their wrist. Probably had the card in their wallet.

Do people really do that? I mean leaving it on your wrist is one thing. That's pretty common I think, but when I get something and leave wearing it I still take the box with me.

[Roy7]

It's also relative. If you got a 200k bonus and you walk into a store to buy a watch, for 10k, you're not going to treat it, the box, or the papers the same way you would if it's something you really obsess over.




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[bay-dweller]

I think a more interesting question is why are there so many empty Rolex boxes for sale on ebay and who is buying them?

Something about that doesn't sit well with me.

I also don't like seeing empty Pappy Van Winkle bottles for sale. What are people doing with these things?

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by georgekart

Do people really do that? I mean leaving it on your wrist is one thing. That's pretty common I think, but when I get something and leave wearing it I still take the box with me.

I've seen it. Of course I've only hung around an AD for long enough to see it a few times. But yeah, the young guy with the TT sub left with it on his wrist but with a bag with the box. The other 2 times was in a really wealthy area (Carmel, CA) and I just saw the tail end (congrats, admiration, handshake). In both those cases the purchaser left with the watch and nothing else. Maybe the AD was going to mail it them? But I also think outside of our little world the box the watch came in is just something to clutter up the house. It also might be that PM watch purchasers who buy at full retail are different than SS watch purchasers.

I've seen a few people leaving with that suitcase thing the Omega moonwatch comes with. That thing is over the top.

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by georgekart

Do people really do that? I mean leaving it on your wrist is one thing. That's pretty common I think, but when I get something and leave wearing it I still take the box with me.

As Larry said, keeping tags, boxes, and manuals is a practice that is unique to us watch enthusiasts. Many of my colleagues who wear Rolex and other luxury brands but are not horologists don’t even recall if the watch came with a warranty card and their purchases are relatively recent.

[smym18]

Originally Posted by bay-dweller

I think a more interesting question is why are there so many empty Rolex boxes for sale on ebay and who is buying them?

Something about that doesn't sit well with me.

I also don't like seeing empty Pappy Van Winkle bottles for sale. What are people doing with these things?

Rolex box has no appeal to me. I don’t think I’ve ever even touched any of my boxes over the years. I wouldn’t sell them, but if people know there’s a market for them I can’t blame them for it. My watches are either on my wrist, dresser, or pouch, never back in the box.

[nightmyth]

Originally Posted by aaronch

Thanks for your reply. What gives the AD the right to keep the cert tho? If I bought from an AD, I would definitely want the cert. Unless it's something to do with ADs offloading to gray market dealers?


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it's a sellers' market and they make the rules. if buyers have more power then buyers can make more rules. simple

[Phooi]

Originally Posted by aaronch

Probably been asked a million times before... I see so many rolexs for sale in the second hand market without certs. Is there any reason why this is the case? Most of the explanations seem to be that the owner lost it, but if I bought a 10k+ watch, u betcha life that I would be guarding the cert as much as the watch. And it's not only vintage watches too, I see alot of 1-2 year old watches that are missing certs. Is there something that I'm missing?


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Rolexes have been around a LONG time. Things happen over a long course of time. Rolexes weren’t always so expansive or popular.

Why would you keep the papers for something out of warranty and nobody wanted? For example, the Paul Newman Daytonas weren’t popular in its day. Dealers were trying to give them away. So I bet many of them don’t have papers. In fact, I believe the actual Paul Newman didn’t have papers. Would people still buy that watch?

Other things happen — life. People move, pass on and they lose things. Many Rolexes were purchased by military. Some of them probably couldn’t keep their box and papers. Point is there are a myriad of reasons it could happen.

Now, of course, there are those that keep everything and we’re fortunate to have those historical records and it’s value reflects that. Look at that antiques roadshow guy with the Paul Newman. But that rarity reflects why it’s so valuable.

As to recent watches, I think that’s more likely the current frenzy of FOMO and flipping than anything else. If someone offered you a used real DaytonaC for $15k with no papers, most people would take it.