Tudor Black Bay 58: Movement Problem & Service Concern

[mtherrmann]

In June, 2020 I purchased a Tudor Black Bay 58. I have worn the piece regularly over the past eight months and noticed in February, 2021 it was losing 3 seconds a day. I thought the watch might be running slow because I really never gave it a full wind, so I wound the watch 40 turns and decided to test the 70 hour power reserve at this time. To my surprise, 51 hours later, after sitting upright on my desk, not on my wrist, the watch had stopped. I wore the watch a few more days and tested the PR again, giving the watch 60 full turns and the low PR surprised me again...this time it lasted 52 hours–nowhere near the 70 hour power reserve the Tudor in-house MT5402 movement should have. In early March, 2021 I took the watch to the Rolex Service Center in NYC and they sent the watch back for repair. The staff at the Rolex Service Center in NYC were what you would expect; very kind and helpful. They said the watch would be returned in 7 weeks, but to my surprise 10 days later I was notified that the watch was ready for pickup! The repair was made under the Tudor 5 year warranty but here is what really shocked me and quite frankly disappointed me: When I picked up the watch I requested an overview of what service was done to the watch and what part(s) were replaced. The agent paused for a moment and said “well to be honest, in the notes it says you got a ‘Geneve Movement’ which means they replaced the movement with a new one.” I asked if this was because there was a problem with the movement that was essentially beyond repair to which the agent informed me that “no, it’s really just more efficient and cost-effective to replace the movement.”

My impression of Tudor has gone from a brand that is tied to Rolex... not the best of the best watches, but really good watches andafter this experience i cant help boy feel like Tudor is the fast fashion of the watch industry like Uniqlo or H&M. It works, but its not made to last. I will likely sell my Black Bay 58 and purchase a submariner or other Rolex to replace it as Rolex movements are at least given serial numbers and not simply discarded like a quartz battery after a few years of use. Regardless of your stance on new/serviced movements at service you can’t disagree that a brand that treats the heart of it’s watches like an item from a vending machine should not be taken too seriously.

[squall1]

Does the watch work as it should now? If so, I don't really understand what you're upset about. Sounds like a really good service experience to me. You got a bad one, it happens, they fixed it in a way that was most expeditious. I'd be over the moon happy.

Good luck on all your future purchases though, whatever they may be.

[RB971]

So they replaced it with a new calibre MT5602 movement? Sounds like a good deal to me.


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[Old Expat Beast]

You might want to avoid any Rolex with a 32xx movement, otherwise your problems could just be beginning, rather than promptly resolved as they seem to be now.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=786299

[kieselguhr]

Sucks to hear you’re disappointed with the service model.

The fact is, watchmaking is a dying craft. There are more technicians then there are watchmakers. Interest in pursuing watchmaking is rare among the younger generation.

It’s not just Tudor, other higher end luxury companies are also resorting to this service plan where a movement or module is swapped for one that has recently been serviced. It is simply more efficient, cost effective, and accommodates the lack of watchmakers. These companies include watch conglomerates like Richemont and even independents like H Moser and Cie.

It is also likely that Rolex will soon go this route as more and more parts of the watch are not serviced but instead swapped out like the barrel and mainspring in the 32xx series of movements.

[watchmavan]

It has been known for a few years that Tudor swap out whole calibres to save costs. This is one of the ways they save money. It's part of why you get such a high standard for watch for the price. A calibre with 70hr reserve, in-house, free sprung balance, full balance bridge, silicon hairspring etc with COSC certification that they guarantee will be 25% more accurate. They did this for a price no one could compete with because they focus on saving on costs (not quality) wherever possible. The watch has come back serviced and running to spec in 10 days as well. There are no surprises here just a quality product at a quality price with excellent service.


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[ndrs63]

I’ve owned 3 Tudors so far. All with in-house movements. Top notch quality movements with precision beating my Rolexes. I had far more problems with Omega Seamaster 2100 movements


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[TimeAZ]

If that model of servicing is more efficient, then all the better. It sure was faster and resolved your problem. Also, beats trying to take apart and examine every piece and randomly trying to apply more oils, recalibrating the movement, and sending you back the same caliber but potentially not fixing whatever was truly wrong with it. The traditional model of servicing has a lot of room for human error.

[Gerardus]

x2
and maybe they were understaffed in the workshop due the whole COVID situation.....swap the movement instead repair to satisfy and pamper the customer.....

Originally Posted by squall1

Does the watch work as it should now? If so, I don't really understand what you're upset about. Sounds like a really good service experience to me. You got a bad one, it happens, they fixed it in a way that was most expeditious. I'd be over the moon happy.

Good luck on all your future purchases though, whatever they may be.

[WalterE]

Originally Posted by Gerardus

x2
and maybe they were understaffed in the workshop due the whole COVID situation.....swap the movement instead repair to satisfy and pamper the customer.....

+1

Work at the workshop benches in Switzerland is really disrupted by COVID. I have suffered extremely and unusually long waiting times from another Swiss brand during this period.

I think Tudor in this case has chosen the best solution to serve you while living up to their commitment of excellent service. Fast and effective vs the high probability it was not going to be 7 weeks but 3-4 months due to backlog of service requests and understaff workshops.

My 2 cents

[Tritto]

So as I understand it Tudor will swap out your movement for a new one - most customers will appreciate the fast turnaround - and the old movement goes back to Switzerland to be stripped down and refurbished ready to go into another watch. They're not disposable movements, this is just a faster and more efficient means of dealing with warranty and service issues. It's only us watch nerds that really care that we don't get the same movement back.


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[Justinmg]

I heard Rolex is going the same way, doesn’t bother me as long as it’s accurate and reliable.

[lamnyc]

What you are saying is you don’t like the quick turnaround time.

[DJ2020]

Are these Tudor movements COSC certified? If so the certification goes with the serial number on the movement. If they change the movements, that would mean new serial or no serial number, where's the COSC certificate for the new movement?

[Galaga167]

Give me an ETA movement in a Tudor before any in-house. Reliable and accurate. Mine still runs at plus 1 second a day after 3 years of ownership. Cheers to that !!

[cronos]

Originally Posted by Galaga167

Give me an ETA movement in a Tudor before any in-house. Reliable and accurate. Mine still runs at plus 1 second a day after 3 years of ownership. Cheers to that !!

Classic Tudor watch:They only made the Black one with the Small Rose/Smiley Face dial for 6 month!

[HiBoost]

My question would be is that replacement movement actually new or is it the last guy's problem movement that has been rebuilt? I'm guessing it is the latter. For those saying this is great service, how would you feel about a car dealer swapping in a rebuilt (not factory new) motor to your new Porsche? And if they start doing this with Rolex as well, what about the movement serial number changing?

The thing that sucks about this concept in my mind is that many of us buy these watches for the sentimental aspects of having a timepiece go with us throughout our lives and even getting passed on to our children. But if the entire inside is completely replaced on a regular basis it feels like you are losing some of that connection to "your" watch. I do understand the practical problem with watchmaking as a dying field (certainly it is in the US).

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[hitman23]

Did not know that Rolex was planning to take this approach as well. Is this just a rumor?

[DuckaDiesel]

Originally Posted by Galaga167

Give me an ETA movement in a Tudor before any in-house. Reliable and accurate. Mine still runs at plus 1 second a day after 3 years of ownership. Cheers to that !!

If you send yours to RSC for service they may swap it for Sellita lol


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[supernova]

60 winds may not be enough to fully wind a 70hour mainspring, I would try around 100 turns and see, you can’t over wind anyway.

My MT5402 is by far the most accurate of my watches at <+1s/day.

Not sure why your disappointed with a new movement, which is more cost effective for them as instead stripping and checking every part to find the problem. Also better for the customer to get the watch back faster, seems like quality service to me.

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[hitman23]

Originally Posted by supernova

60 winds may not be enough to fully wind a 70hour mainspring, I would try around 100 turns and see, you can’t over wind anyway.

My MT5402 is by far the most accurate of my watches at <+1s/day.

Not sure why your disappointed with a new movement, which is more cost effective for them as instead stripping and checking every part to find the problem. Also better for the customer to get the watch back faster, seems like quality service to me.

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I believe part of the concern is that "new" movement is actually a refurbished movement.

[snyde]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

My question would be is that replacement movement actually new or is it the last guy's problem movement that has been rebuilt? I'm guessing it is the latter. For those saying this is great service, how would you feel about a car dealer swapping in a rebuilt (not factory new) motor to your new Porsche? And if they start doing this with Rolex as well, what about the movement serial number changing?

The thing that sucks about this concept in my mind is that many of us buy these watches for the sentimental aspects of having a timepiece go with us throughout our lives and even getting passed on to our children. But if the entire inside is completely replaced on a regular basis it feels like you are losing some of that connection to "your" watch. I do understand the practical problem with watchmaking as a dying field (certainly it is in the US).

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If it makes you feel any better your body is recycled every 7 years too. You’ll have more in common with a new Tudor movement.


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[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

For those saying this is great service, how would you feel about a car dealer swapping in a rebuilt (not factory new) motor to your new Porsche?

The way I run the car? I’ll swap the engine out myself and pick up some garage queen’s engine every 7 years


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[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

The way I run the car? I’ll swap the engine out myself and pick up some garage queen’s engine every 7 years


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What does that have to do with a defect that is the responsibility of the manufacturer to correct? Never mind a high end vehicle like the Porsche I mentioned, most people would be up in arms over a rebuilt motor being swapped into their two year old Honda. A reman motor from LKQ is great for my 20 year old Tahoe that I drove into the ground, but not for my brand new Mazda. At the end of the day a Tudor is still a luxury item. And most consumers of such items would not be in favor of refurbished parts being installed. State Farm typically won't even allow a body shop to use such parts when repairing a newer vehicle, so why is it ok in my watch?

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[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

What does that have to do with a defect that is the responsibility of the manufacturer to correct? Never mind a high end vehicle like the Porsche I mentioned, most people would be up in arms over a rebuilt motor being swapped into their two year old Honda. A reman motor from LKQ is great for my 20 year old Tahoe that I drove into the ground, but not for my brand new Mazda. At the end of the day a Tudor is still a luxury item. And most consumers of such items would not be in favor of refurbished parts being installed. State Farm typically won't even allow a body shop to use such parts when repairing a newer vehicle, so why is it ok in my watch?

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Maybe it’s a matter of perspective. Well just agree to disagree then. Your analogy as a negative doesn’t make sense to me because if they dropped a refurbished block in my 07 every 7 years and warranty it for 2 years, I would be very happy and put in 200k miles between every service and not need to have a separate daily car

[envuks]

A few things here:
1) only you can balance your emotional experience in such situations. Your feelings here seem more a factor of expectations than anything else.
2) losing 3 seconds of time seems minimal to me. The power reserve is a little more concerning, but only minimally so. I probably wouldn’t have noticed either of these.
3) the moment replacement under warranty seems like a positive to me. Easy fix. You never have to think about it again. Done and done.

Enjoy what you have and try not to overthink it


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[FLGatorM5]

You should chat with the P-car guys about their GT3s...

[RyanJ]

People saying this is ok... Mark this post..

Once Rolex starts doing this people will blow gaskets...

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

Maybe it’s a matter of perspective. Well just agree to disagree then. Your analogy as a negative doesn’t make sense to me because if they dropped a refurbished block in my 07 every 7 years and warranty it for 2 years, I would be very happy and put in 200k miles between every service and not need to have a separate daily car

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just having a discussion and your perspective is genuinely interesting to me. You keep coming back to this "wore it out" scenario. But that doesn't apply to watches. All our watches are running at the same speed and in theory wearing at the same rates. There is no such thing as "highway miles" on a watch haha. So you are talking about a motor 7 years and 200k miles down the road and out of warranty and saying you'd be happy paying for a rebuilt block. Totally makes sense. I'd do the same thing in *that* scenario. But I'm talking about a new car, still under full warranty and only having 5k miles and now it throws a rod. Are you still happy getting a rebuilt motor or do you feel the factory owes you a new one? What about the other parts? If your alternator fails at 5k miles are you ok with a reman one or should it be a factory new part? That's a totally different scenario than the alternator going out at 150k miles and you now deciding how much money to put back into the vehicle out of your own pocket.

Originally Posted by RyanJ

People saying this is ok... Mark this post..

Once Rolex starts doing this people will blow gaskets...

100%. This would be front page Hodinkee kinda news (lol at that as the benchmark, but still...)

[Sprezzatura!,]

Originally Posted by hitman23

Did not know that Rolex was planning to take this approach as well. Is this just a rumor?

I don’t think there are any plans for this with Rolex.