Auction Flippers

[Champagnepapi]

I don’t know if this has been discussed yet. But is offering your (modern/ in production) watch for sale via auction in Christie’s/Southeby’s/Phillips etc considered by Rolex/PP/AP same as flipping to the grey market (?)


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Champagnepapi

I don’t know if this has been discussed yet. But is offering your (modern/ in production) watch for sale via auction in Christie’s/Southeby’s/Philips etc considered by Rolex/PP/AP same as flipping to the grey market (?)

Can't see why it would make any difference?

[thenewrick]

Flipping isn’t a hard and fast term. It generally means you’re buying with the intent to sell as quickly as possible for the most profit.

Method of sale doesn’t really matter and Greys don’t really care what people do as long as they buy buy buy

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Can't see why it would make any difference?

Because auction houses actually work with some of those companies. Patek offered their Blue Tiffany piece in auction. Rumors have it Rolex purchased the Paul Newman Daytona in auction. AP sold their “one of a kind” RO in auction. Many unique pieces make it to auctions constantly. Both vintage and modern. I don’t know man, it’s not exactly the same as going to 47th and flipping to a grey dealer. Or is it?


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[mfserge]

Are the auctioneers at Christie’s jumping at the chance to offer your daily Explorer II for auction or are they looking for the more rare, unusual, collectible watches?

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by mfserge

Are the auctioneers at Christie’s jumping at the chance to offer your daily Explorer II for auction or are they looking for the more rare, unusual, collectible watches?

Well that’s what I thought. I like checking their auctions from time to time. Recently I saw they seem to have also modern recent releases being auctioned. A lot.


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[mfserge]

Interesting. I guess if it’s a hot item that sells and they can make their cut then why not offer it up. But to answer the question, in my mind flipping is flipping regardless if it’s to a grey or auction or sold on the forum. If you buy with the intent to sell then it’s a flip. One time doesn’t make a flipper, multiple times does.

[Champagnepapi]

Example:






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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by mfserge

Are the auctioneers at Christie’s jumping at the chance to offer your daily Explorer II for auction or are they looking for the more rare, unusual, collectible watches?

Alone probably not but if you have the flipper starter kit with Pepsi sub Daytona and dweller they'll list it as part of an important collection from blah blah state you're from.

[Polar Bear]

IMO

If you buy a model at retail with the sole intention of selling it for as much profit as possible, then you're a flipper
The avenue you use to extract that profit is irrelevant

The big brands you mentioned who have offered special pieces for sale at auction typically do so in conjunction with the proceeds going to charity.

If a private client were to purchase a Daytona at retail and then "raffle it off" with all the proceeds (legitimately) going to charity, thats not a flip, its a tax write off.

[mfserge]

Originally Posted by EEpro

flipper starter kit.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Champagnepapi

Because auction houses actually work with some of those companies. Patek offered their Blue Tiffany piece in auction. Rumors have it Rolex purchased the Paul Newman Daytona in auction. AP sold their “one of a kind” RO in auction. Many unique pieces make it to auctions constantly. Both vintage and modern. I don’t know man, it’s not exactly the same as going to 47th and flipping to a grey dealer. Or is it?

A quick reminder, your questions was about "offering your (modern/ in production) watch for sale via auction" not AP auctioning off a piece unique for charity or an auction for a 40+ yr old piece with a unique history.

[geoffreyis]

Who you sell to makes no difference.

[Apheaven]

It is the most public form of flipping. If the watch is a new desirable hot model, it is a AD’s worst nightmare as Rolex, Patek, etc. can see original AD seller info (and original buyer) on the papers. If AD is contacted by watch brand due to such it reflects poorly on them, in turn AD is obligated to terminate their relationship with client. If new desirable watches keep ending up at auction by a single AD the watch manufacturer will terminate their relationship. It is has happened to a number of Rolex and Patek Authorized Dealers and usually they fold up shop a few years down the road since they lost their largest revenue stream.


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[Incroyable12]

Selling at auction requires a lot of patience on part of the seller.

You usually won't get paid for one or two months so it doesn't really work out for dealers and people who need quick cashflow.

It really only makes sense for extremely valuable pieces that would otherwise be hard to sell at asking price. The auction houses also charge commission and various fees like tax, photo fee, insurance, etc.

[Santiago32]

Planning on selling your pearlmasters?

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

A quick reminder, your questions was about "offering your (modern/ in production) watch for sale via auction" not AP auctioning off a piece unique for charity or an auction for a 40+ yr old piece with a unique history.

Well these companies still use these platforms. They could’ve held a private charity event or whatnot and do it privately. Doing it in an auction house usually gets wider press coverage. And of course, auction house gets paid regardless if it’s a charity piece or not (buyers premium)


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[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by geoffreyis

Who you sell to makes no difference.

This

[Roli4life]

If auction is considered flipping, then Patek is flipping right from the factory.

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by Roli4life

If auction is considered flipping, then Patek is flipping right from the factory.

Exactly my point lol


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[zengineer]

Originally Posted by Roli4life

If auction is considered flipping, then Patek is flipping right from the factory.

Selling a modern Rolex that YOU bought at retail at auction is flipping just like selling to a grey dealer is flipping.

You flipping your watch at auction doesn't somehow redefine every other watch in the auction as flipping. Flipping is buying with the express intent to sell at a profit. If you are good enough at it, it's called being a watch dealer.



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[cbalster]

you send your watch in months before the auction and get paid like months after the auction. you get nickeled and dimed on silly fees, plus a selling commission (15%?). there are better ways to sell a watch, like TRF, c24, craigslist, anything else almost.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by cbalster

you send your watch in months before the auction and get paid like months after the auction. you get nickeled and dimed on silly fees, plus a selling commission (15%?). there are better ways to sell a watch, like TRF, c24, craigslist, anything else almost.

I think auctions make sense for rare or vintage stuff but yes, I am baffled when modern SS Rolexes show up at auction. Maybe part of estates?

It's a bit like going to a Barret Jackson car auction and watch vintage Ferrari after vintage Ferrari and suddenly a 2019 Camry LE crosses the block.

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[sj24k]

If I buy it, I own it, and can do what I want with it. Whether someone thinks I’m a so-called “flipper” should I decide to sell it has zero impact on me.

If some AD took offense and somehow used this against me, I’d just take my money elsewhere.

I know many out there place a really high value on what their watch salespeople think of them (especially in this market) but I find worrying about this stuff a bit silly.

Anyway…


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[Incroyable12]

Originally Posted by zengineer

I think auctions make sense for rare or vintage stuff but yes, I am baffled when modern SS Rolexes show up at auction. Maybe part of estates?

It's a bit like going to a Barret Jackson car auction and watch vintage Ferrari after vintage Ferrari and suddenly a 2019 Camry LE crosses the block.

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Auction houses usually agree to take in run of the mill stuff when a seller has something extremely rare that they want. So it's kind of like a package deal.