Have you ever gotten caught for selling an AP?

[kingmille1]

This post is not about flipping. For most collectors, buying unlimited APs without giving up on a few is not a possibility. I was wondering if AP is strict on blacklisting collectors that have sold or given away their watches.

[EdwardC]

I wont sweat at all if you are not buying and flipping. It's your property, you own the decision when to wear it and when to sell it if you want to. For most collectors it's not like you can get an AP from boutique frequently anyway, so why more stress?

[Tools]

I don't know of any watch manufacturer "blacklisting" buyers of their products.

[wholecz]

Ap is ok with selling after one year and prefers two years. If you don't like the watch just put it in the safe for two years and sell it afterward.

[Reign]

I sold the mirrored Bucci after two years for a good reason. They asked why it was re registered and I explained the rationale. No issues but I got it when it was literally just on display in a different era.

A flip within a year will get you nailed by AP and longer window for harder pieces. It’s your property and you can do whatever you want after you buy it but it’s also their watches before they consider selling you the next one - goes both ways


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Tools

I don't know of any watch manufacturer "blacklisting" buyers of their products.

The entire point of AP's register-for-extended-warranty scheme is to monitor what happens to the watch after purchase; otherwise it's just extra work for the same result.

If OP has to ask strangers online instead of their SA whether something is frowned upon, well, chances are it is frowned upon. The scarcity of any of the 50th anniversary ROs on the grey market, despite giant premiums, suggests that AP has been very careful in selecting the recipients, which I take as another indication of AP's attitude towards customers that fall out of love with their watches quickly.

If after some years a certain amount of consolidation is needed, I'd check with my boutique beforehand (unless the market has turned in the meantime).

[Bearxj86]

If the only watch they sold you is re-registered within a year; you are pretty much going to be blacklisted.

If you bought like 3-5 pieces over 5 years and maybe 1-2 gets re-registered, as long as it not a crazy piece you should be fine.

[psm11]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

The entire point of AP's register-for-extended-warranty scheme is to monitor what happens to the watch after purchase; otherwise it's just extra work for the same result.

If OP has to ask strangers online instead of their SA whether something is frowned upon, well, chances are it is frowned upon. The scarcity of any of the 50th anniversary ROs on the grey market, despite giant premiums, suggests that AP has been very careful in selecting the recipients, which I take as another indication of AP's attitude towards customers that fall out of love with their watches quickly.

If after some years a certain amount of consolidation is needed, I'd check with my boutique beforehand (unless the market has turned in the meantime).

I recall months ago reading rumors of an AP buy back program in the works for those who want to offload a piece. There has to be a middle ground. If after 2-3 years of owning a piece that I paid good money for I want to sell it to fund another (not flipping) its kind of bullshit they would mark that as a strike against me (regardless of the piece) or that I have to go to them and explain myself. At the end of the day these are mass produced pieces and if I sell one to buy another AP why the hell do they care.

[Jsol]

I've talked to AP at length about this. I don't think they are trying to control what people choose to do with their property or hard earned money. They just want to reward passionate collectors vs cash hungry flippers. Selling after a year is really understandable in their mind. They are looking to curb the fast resale. They have done one hell of a job screening for the 50th anniversary recipients so far.


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[kingmille1]

Thanks for the reply everyone, I have purchased about 8 APs throughout my watch collecting journey and have not sold a single one as I do not need the proceeds. However, there are scenarios where sometimes collectors like myself have to let go of pieces that does not include selling. For example, gifting a business partner is one of those cases where I don’t gain any monetary value but do run the risk of getting blacklisted when registered. Was just wondering if AP reviews it at a case by case basis since it’s not always black and white when it comes to these scenarios.


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[whiterabbit66]

Most all Boutiques are entering original owners into AP warranty database, then owners extend online for 3 more years. All corporate boutiques have access to database. When I recently put an order I got a text from Boutique a few weeks later asking a question about what I did for a living as my linkedin profile was set to private!

AP are doing a great job now of stopping flippers IMHO.

I don't see a problem with known collectors selling the odd watch.

[Henrimontgomery]

Originally Posted by Jsol

I've talked to AP at length about this. I don't think they are trying to control what people choose to do with their property or hard earned money. They just want to reward passionate collectors vs cash hungry flippers. Selling after a year is really understandable in their mind. They are looking to curb the fast resale. They have done one hell of a job screening for the 50th anniversary recipients so far.


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I buy, wear and sale most of my watches because it’s impossible to know if you’re going to like it in a few months. But I wear them and at least for 6 months. Honestly never had issues with any AD.

[macrowatch]

Boy do I have a story to tell you. Was trying to unload my imaginary ceramic PQ openworked. Specified only 1M USD, payable in cash, non sequential bills.

We meet at the appointed time, and then BUSTED!!!! Undercover shopper turned undercover shopper. The boutique manager rounded the corner with a senior exec from AP and told me I was outta there. Left without the money or the watch. Turns out they had been monitoring chatter on the dark net. Doh!

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by psm11

I recall months ago reading rumors of an AP buy back program in the works for those who want to offload a piece. There has to be a middle ground. If after 2-3 years of owning a piece that I paid good money for I want to sell it to fund another (not flipping) its kind of bullshit they would mark that as a strike against me (regardless of the piece) or that I have to go to them and explain myself. At the end of the day these are mass produced pieces and if I sell one to buy another AP why the hell do they care.

All good points, but don't forget they do actually care. Because if you are diamond hands and never sell any watch, then the secondary market becomes scarce too and it keeps propelling the virtuous cycle for the brand. High secondary prices, in demand primary market. And the best kind of brand situation where it's not even about gray manipulation, but genuine scarcity on the secondary market because 95% of all buyers are still holding and don't need to unload anything for the next purchase.

[mobster600]

If anything they should thank the secondary market! We're the reason Rolex, AP and PP can increase prices. They see 2x-3x retail next day......they get the hint. People will pay more. Before the internet Jewlery stores sold watches second hand. Why isn't a brick and mortar shut down for re-selling? The watch market is free to do whatever they want

[daveo5]

Sold my AP RO, didn’t really connect with it, the world didn’t end.


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[7sins]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit66

Most all Boutiques are entering original owners into AP warranty database, then owners extend online for 3 more years. All corporate boutiques have access to database. When I recently put an order I got a text from Boutique a few weeks later asking a question about what I did for a living as my linkedin profile was set to private!

AP are doing a great job now of stopping flippers IMHO.

I don't see a problem with known collectors selling the odd watch.

That is interesting, my SA automatically extends mine for the additional 3 years, no work on my part. Maybe SA dependent or a way to lock me down further haha.

[MrBigSmiles]

All boutiques are using the same CRM system so they can see your history and when warranty cards are updated from a sale, it will be reflected in their system. One SA asked me why I sold an ROO I bought and I said to fund another purchase.

They won’t like it, but it is what it is…a crazy market.


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[SoylentGreenChi]

Originally Posted by daveo5

Sold my AP RO, didn’t really connect with it, the world didn’t end.


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This made me laugh out loud. Good point, too.

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by mobster600

If anything they should thank the secondary market! We're the reason Rolex, AP and PP can increase prices. They see 2x-3x retail next day......they get the hint. People will pay more. Before the internet Jewlery stores sold watches second hand. Why isn't a brick and mortar shut down for re-selling? The watch market is free to do whatever they want

quite the opposite of what you're saying. It is because there is a tightening reselling that allows 2nd hand prices to go up that much.

The blacklisting makes people reconsider flipping a watch. Instant profit vs long term relationship.

Lets not sugar coat this. Anyone who is selling a watch, all it comes down to is "I want the money more than the watch"

If AP didn't care if you sold the watch or not, the 2nd hand prices will actually drop a lot more since people feel no need to hold onto any unfavorable pieces they had to buy before to establish a relationship. And that nobody will ever say no to any RO, since they would be able to sell it the next day immediately.

ultimately the current model favors long term holding, and people who actually like the brand and its watches. If you didn't love AP, you wouldn't pay 3x retail. If you didn't love AP, you wouldnt' wait 3 years for one.

[SSCosmo]

So many threads on this topic, but it's really quite simple - AP is in a position to be very selective on who they sell their watches to these days and they have made it very clear that they are prioritizing collectors who are passionate about the brand (and not just the hot ROs), and preferably, the kinds of collectors who do not want or need to sell pieces to acquire more.

There's nothing AP can do to stop you from selling a piece. They may even suggest that they don't mind if you sell after a year or two. But think about it - if a ceramic QP or double balance wheel is up for allocation, who do you think they will allocate it to? All other factors being equal, a collector who hasn't sold any of their APs, or one who has after a couple of years?

If you are someone hoping to build a relationship with AP and get access to the really hard to get pieces, your best bet is to not sell anything you buy from them, even after a couple of years. If you do, don't be surprised if you don't get what you want.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by daveo5

Sold my AP RO, didn’t really connect with it, the world didn’t end.


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Well if you are one and done then completely true. Good for you ;)

[7sins]

Originally Posted by SSCosmo

But think about it - if a ceramic QP or double balance wheel is up for allocation, who do you think they will allocate it to?

Every boutique is different, in my experience, it has ZERO to do with what watches you have sold and in what time frame. Assuming you aren't flipping.

It comes down to your SA relationship, boutique manager relationship, AP corporate relationship and are you a passionate collector. Do you invest the time in the brand, go to boutique events, corporate events, stop by the boutique? People forget how many individuals can EASILY walk off the street and afford an AP, your commitment is just as important as your SA's. I have been in BH AP many times, I see 5-10+ people each hour walk in and try to buy a RO off the street. They could could care less if you sold a RO you bought 3 years ago. People do business with people they like, that will never change and is the epitome of how most relationships are built.

[GS93108]

Originally Posted by 7sins

Every boutique is different, in my experience, it has ZERO to do with what watches you have sold and in what time frame. Assuming you aren't flipping.

It comes down to your SA relationship, boutique manager relationship, AP corporate relationship and are you a passionate collector. Do you invest the time in the brand, go to boutique events, corporate events, stop by the boutique? People forget how many individuals can EASILY walk off the street and afford an AP, your commitment is just as important as your SA's. I have been in BH AP many times, I see 5-10+ people each hour walk in and try to buy a RO off the street. They could could care less if you sold a RO you bought 3 years ago. People do business with people they like, that will never change and is the epitome of how most relationships are built.

Exactly this.

[ItsNotReallyMe]

Originally Posted by psm11

I recall months ago reading rumors of an AP buy back program in the works for those who want to offload a piece. There has to be a middle ground. If after 2-3 years of owning a piece that I paid good money for I want to sell it to fund another (not flipping) its kind of bullshit they would mark that as a strike against me (regardless of the piece) or that I have to go to them and explain myself. At the end of the day these are mass produced pieces and if I sell one to buy another AP why the hell do they care.

I'm not quite sure how that would work in practice, as:

1. AP are unlikely to buy a watch back for more than they sold it to you
2. You're unlikely to sell a 30K watch to them for 25K (or at a stretch RRP) if it's now worth 70K.

[Qngo516]

Originally Posted by 7sins

It comes down to your SA relationship, boutique manager relationship, AP corporate relationship and are you a passionate collector. Do you invest the time in the brand, go to boutique events, corporate events, stop by the boutique? People forget how many individuals can EASILY walk off the street and afford an AP, your commitment is just as important as your SA's. I have been in BH AP many times, I see 5-10+ people each hour walk in and try to buy a RO off the street.

Amen!

I don’t understand why these points are so difficult for others to understand?—this is the most basic, universal shit ever!

Step one: put in efforts with SA/brand

That’s it!

[Bearxj86]

I agree with you B. But I also told you numerous times that not everyone is as good looking and well dressed as you.

I am half kidding. Listen to B. He gets RMs and APs at retail.

Originally Posted by 7sins

Every boutique is different, in my experience, it has ZERO to do with what watches you have sold and in what time frame. Assuming you aren't flipping.

It comes down to your SA relationship, boutique manager relationship, AP corporate relationship and are you a passionate collector. Do you invest the time in the brand, go to boutique events, corporate events, stop by the boutique? People forget how many individuals can EASILY walk off the street and afford an AP, your commitment is just as important as your SA's. I have been in BH AP many times, I see 5-10+ people each hour walk in and try to buy a RO off the street. They could could care less if you sold a RO you bought 3 years ago. People do business with people they like, that will never change and is the epitome of how most relationships are built.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by ItsNotReallyMe

I'm not quite sure how that would work in practice, as:

1. AP are unlikely to buy a watch back for more than they sold it to you
2. You're unlikely to sell a 30K watch to them for 25K (or at a stretch RRP) if it's now worth 70K.

One rumored feature of the rumored Rolex CPO program was limiting the program to models that had been discontinued for at least 2 years. For those watches, the market is the market, without any tethering to MSRP.

The other variant might be giving brownie points for below-market trade-ins when it comes to non-VIP access to the "rare" models. That would solve the rarity -ladder conundrum, unless the goal is the investment gain and not the watch.

[Rrpdc]

I would feel lucky to get an AP at retail.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

One rumored feature of the rumored Rolex CPO program was limiting the program to models that had been discontinued for at least 2 years. For those watches, the market is the market, without any tethering to MSRP.

The other variant might be giving brownie points for below-market trade-ins when it comes to non-VIP access to the "rare" models. That would solve the rarity -ladder conundrum, unless the goal is the investment gain and not the watch.

This would obviously need to be constantly adjusted as the market changes, but while the market is so much higher then retail, my guess is it would work fine for certain models but not every single model.

For example, if I bought say a ROC (after having other history with AP) and in theory the market price is $40K above retail....if AP gave me 95% of MSRP on a trade in for a perpetual calendar RO that is $45K above retail in the market...it would be a wash for me in dollars and cents for value over MSRP, but I gained access to a more desirable model for me personally.