Misleading Swiss made dial on N serial 16700

[alexcr]

Came across a GMT Master 16700, no papers so can't tell much, the owner is not alive so can't tell the story either.
The dial has the "Swiss Made" at 6 o'clock, indicating it is the rare occurrence in '99 of Super Luminova, however, the Serial number starts with N119.., which indicates it's a '91 model. I operate with knowledge learned from a few articles so I might get it wrong.
Are those parameters possible, or it's most likely redial? Thanks!

[Tools]

An N prefix serial GMT would not have come with a Swiss Made dial, this would likely be a service dial.

[Dan S]

As Larry suggested, the original owner likely had the dial replaced at the first service. I assume the hands are also luminova. UV is the easy way to tell.

[Filipão]

Service dial.

My "Tritinova" is a 1998ish #U677.XXX.

[alexcr]

Originally Posted by Tools

An N prefix serial GMT would not have come with a Swiss Made dial, this would likely be a service dial.

Would this affect the value? No papers to it, just the original Rolex pouch. Is it worth it replacing the dial to one that corresponds with the serial number?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Would this affect the value? No papers to it, just the original Rolex pouch. Is it worth it replacing the dial to one that corresponds with the serial number?

It affects the value somewhat but not as much as it would for an older model, as the original dial on yours was very similar to the service replacement. Reverting to original dial (and hands) wouldn't be worth the cost and effort for me. Some people prefer the fully functional (luminous) service dial and hands anyway.

[77T]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Would this affect the value? No papers to it, just the original Rolex pouch. Is it worth it replacing the dial to one that corresponds with the serial number?

If you’re buying it for a quick flip, then pass that one up. But if you’d want it for a long-term keeper, I would consider finding a good set of era-correct dial and hands.

Does the bracelet and clasp fit the serial number era?

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It affects the value somewhat but not as much as it would for an older model, as the original dial on yours was very similar to the service replacement. Reverting to original dial (and hands) wouldn't be worth the cost and effort for me. Some people prefer the fully functional (luminous) service dial and hands anyway.

I agree Adam, especially if the OP was going to move this watch onward quickly. The words “dial and hands functionally updated” would probably appeal to some buyers.

For me, if I was holding onto this one in the long term, the cost of an era-correct dial & hands could be mitigated by selling the service dial & hands that came out of the Watch.


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[TuRo]

Agree with Larry and Adam and Dan,

The dial of a mid-90s 16700 is about 20-30% or so of its value and perfectly ok with a post-2000 service dial (perhaps knocks it's value by 10-15% tops)..... so it just wouldn't be worth doing a swap as a T25 would be £1500-2000 to buy, and even with selling the old one for say £750-1000, you'd probably be 'upside-down' on the deal still after watchmaker dial switching costs.

It becomes cost appropriate imho, at about the era of say the 16750 matte/16660 matte/16800 matte or 5513 matte, in as much as it's a point where a pre -1985 (8.5 million) case that has a wrong dial I.e. T25 gloss or swiss gloss is worth doing, as you'll roughly add 30-40% to watch value for about a 10-15% outlay and you get the resale value of original service back c £1000.

Having said all that the 'overton window' of acceptability/discourse moves upwards all the time so in a decade or so sperhaps a 16700/14060/16600/14270/16570 will be worth doing !!!

Beyond that for a bit of fun to show how age appropriate dial values as % watch value go up exponentially here's some 'off top of my uneducated head' estimates - pls take these with a pinch of educated salt.

White matte (any sub gmt) over gloss service 40% plus
Daytona std big red /sigma (over service small red) £50%
Gilt Explorer 40-75%
Gilt Sub 60-250 %- much more for some eg red depth 6538 at 750%
Gilt GMT 70-200% much more if pan-am white or silver dial - ps any news from Switzerland Eric !
Sea Dweller non swiss service 50-250%
Deco PN Daytona 250 -300 +% more RCO v ROC
Comex 500-1000% eg 16800~1665
Milsub.....ditto plus knobs on!
Milgauss.....ditto more esp earlier Paris hobnail dials

Rgds Paul

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Would this affect the value? No papers to it, just the original Rolex pouch. Is it worth it replacing the dial to one that corresponds with the serial number?

I wouldn't mess around with that sort of project, it's a lot of work with virtually no upside. In fact, it might even end up costing more than buying a fully original one.

If you're happy with the watch, buy it and wear it. As Larry mentioned, there's nothing wrong with it. If you really want an all-original watch, wait for an all-original watch.

BTW, what is an "original Rolex pouch?"

[TuRo]

A.k.a the ubiquitous green felt/gold crown service pouch I suspect Dan. :-)

[Tools]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Would this affect the value? No papers to it, just the original Rolex pouch. Is it worth it replacing the dial to one that corresponds with the serial number?

Unlikely to be an "original" Rolex pouch. Few watches came with this, but it may have been given when a Rolex Service was done or added at a later time.

A Service Dial affects pricing if compared to another in like condition that has all original parts. Condition is paramount. Originality is only high on the list of those folks who are looking for it, although, it can considerably enhance the value of rare, very collectible, models. This watch is not in that category, but is a good, solid and historic piece.

[alexcr]

Yes, you are right, it's a service travel pouch didn't know about it.
anyway, got the watch at a price below the cheapest on chrono, so I hope I got a good deal since I don't plan on keeping it, but rather flipping(maybe not a quick flip).
thanks everybody for help

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by alexcr

anyway, got the watch at a price below the cheapest on chrono, so I hope I got a good deal since I don't plan on keeping it, but rather flipping(maybe not a quick flip).

Good luck with that.

[TuRo]

Ok good wishes on purchase . ...perhaps though ..'plan on enjoying it for a while, before upgrading to a better piece ' rather than the dreaded 'f' word, will go down better with peeps here - I'm (in the main) joking, of course - post some photos of the swiss dial when you do buy it !

[alexcr]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Ok good wishes on purchase . ...perhaps though ..'plan on enjoying it for a while, before upgrading to a better piece ' rather than the dreaded 'f' word, will go down better with peeps here - I'm (in the main) joking, of course - post some photos of the swiss dial when you do buy it !

Yeah so it's kind of a mix, I plan on enjoying it for a while, but stay open to selling it with a small profit if the opportunity will occur.
Risking of being criticized, still have to say it, not a big fan of metal bracelets for daily wear, so I put a FKM rubber strap on it. Feel better on my wrist, gives a sportier look. Please forgive me, die-hard Rolex fans, if this offends you :)

[Proto3]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Yes, you are right, it's a service travel pouch didn't know about it.
anyway, got the watch at a price below the cheapest on chrono, so I hope I got a good deal since I don't plan on keeping it, but rather flipping(maybe not a quick flip).
thanks everybody for help

How much did it set you back? Just curious, I feel like I see these listed anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000.

[alexcr]

Originally Posted by Proto3

How much did it set you back? Just curious, I feel like I see these listed anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000.

Yes, that's what I found as well. Cost me 7,500€. The bracelet comes with a diver extension. Checked with a local watchmaker, said the movement's working fine.

[Proto3]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Yes, that's what I found as well. Cost me 7,500€. The bracelet comes with a diver extension. Checked with a local watchmaker, said the movement's working fine.

Not a bad price

[TuRo]

£7000 is frankly late 2018/early 2019 price. If the 78360 bracelet is good then that's amazing.

Btw on some watches like the 16700, 16610 and 16600 etc... RSC ran out of 'Swiss' service dials in about 2008-9 and started fitting 'Swiss Made' ones as yours (prima facie) appears to have..

Get your watchmaker to check the bracelet blade stampings and case engravings too, and perhaps put up a macro dial photo, as I suggest as that is very VERY CHEAP 16700 indeed!

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by alexcr

Yeah so it's kind of a mix, I plan on enjoying it for a while, but stay open to selling it with a small profit if the opportunity will occur.
Risking of being criticized, still have to say it, not a big fan of metal bracelets for daily wear, so I put a FKM rubber strap on it. Feel better on my wrist, gives a sportier look. Please forgive me, die-hard Rolex fans, if this offends you :)

Sport Rolex are also very nice on leather straps ...
from this angle shot, crown guard area is looking weird...

[alexcr]

Originally Posted by TuRo

£7000 is frankly late 2018/early 2019 price. If the 78360 bracelet is good then that's amazing.

Btw on some watches like the 16700, 16610 and 16600 etc... RSC ran out of 'Swiss' service dials in about 2008-9 and started fitting 'Swiss Made' ones as yours (prima facie) appears to have..

Get your watchmaker to check the bracelet blade stampings and case engravings too, and perhaps put up a macro dial photo, as I suggest as that is very VERY CHEAP 16700 indeed!

That's the best I could do with my phone atm. The service pouch is 5006036.64, read somewhere online that those started from 2010.