Help with evaluating Rolex 16220 Datejust

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and come seeking some opinions regarding the Rolex 16220 I just ordered on eBay. (I know, I know, everyone opposes buying on eBay but when I saw the watch I could not resist). I just ordered the piece and it is being sent to the authenticator ( I will attach photos). First I just wanted to ask if from the photos it looks legitimate (I trust you all more than the eBay authenticator), and what the fair price is for these because I’ve seen a lot of different numbers.

Thanks!

[TimeToGo]

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Crappy pics but looks good.

As you mention, prices are all over the place..

[johnliley]

Has it shown up yet?

[Dan S]

I don't see any issues with it, but it's hard to put a value on it because of the dial issues.

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by johnliley

Has it shown up yet?

No it has not shown up yet, still waiting on authentication (longer than expected)

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't see any issues with it, but it's hard to put a value on it because of the dial issues.

I didn’t realize there were dial issues, is it a redial?

If the dial was fine, what would be the reasonable range to pay? I just want to make sure I did not over pay.

Thanks

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by AmateurEnthusiast

I didn’t realize there were dial issues, is it a redial?

If the dial was fine, what would be the reasonable range to pay? I just want to make sure I did not over pay.

Thanks

Appears the dial may have spent sometime face down in someone's drawer. Appears to have some scratches / spots. AGAIN, crappy pictures

[TuRo]

Dial value just 20-25% on a 'basic batton' datejust - I suspect it might look better in the flesh, but it looks like it has some spotting/decay (might be dust/on plexi but doubt it), but it's not perhaps that visible to naked eye.

Btw 'eveness' across the whole dial of any imperfections can be a make or break for me...a little 'evenly distributed and stable spotting/decay, (eg a black dial 16713 I had there were thousands of gold spots shining through it), I personally, sometimes quite like.

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Well I’ll let you know when/if I receive it. It has been at the authenticator since Wednesday.

[TuRo]

Cool - btw in the UK authentication is nearly always granted same working day it arrived (I had a little bit of involvement setting up the thing 3 yrs ago) - if it drags on to second day or so, it can be a not too positive sign - hope not !

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by AmateurEnthusiast

I didn’t realize there were dial issues, is it a redial?

If the dial was fine, what would be the reasonable range to pay? I just want to make sure I did not over pay.

Thanks

Well, I guess you will know better when you see it in person, but the photos appear to show some fairly prominent and unattractive marks on the dial. And people generally charge a premium for the colored dials, which would not be warranted for a poor one.

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Arrived and looks fantastic! Crystal bears all imperfections, dial is great!

Any idea of a range that would have been right to pay?

Thanks

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by AmateurEnthusiast

Arrived and looks fantastic! Crystal bears all imperfections, dial is great!

Any idea of a range that would have been right to pay?

Thanks

It's hard for us to put a value on it without seeing better photos, so I'm going to have to make some assumptions about condition. Just based on what I can see, and assuming that the dial is really as clean as you claim, I'd say $4500 or so. The bracelet looks badly stretched beyond usability, and the case shows significant wear (e.g. top of lugs sleeve-polished). A pristine example would be more, but based on those photos, it's far from pristine. If you think that's an incorrect characterization then I would encourage you to post some good photos from all angles.

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Actually box and papers were confiscated by eBay, how much do I lose from that? I was told they were purchased after the watch but I believed they were still authentic, eBay disagreed. I keep trying to add photos but am being restricted due to file size. Let me try to add some again. I agree band is pretty stretched, although I will probably still use it. The crystal does have a few marks, might wait on a replacement though. Keeps good time. Is $4,500 the right price to pay?

Thanks

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Box and Papers confiscated by eBay authenticator, how does that affect value?

More images:

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by AmateurEnthusiast

Box and Papers confiscated by eBay authenticator, how does that affect value?

what does that even mean? why would the authenticator confiscate the B&P?

lastly, you already bought it so ask what the value range is? a simple ebay search for sold items would have give you a decent steer.

[AmateurEnthusiast]

eBay determined B&P as not authentic and would not ship them.

I see all kinds of numbers on eBay and was hoping the community could discern prices better.

Finally, how accurate is watchcharts? They mark the watch at $5,400 but that seems high

[Old Expat Beast]

If eBay says B&P are not authentic, I would return the watch right away.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by AmateurEnthusiast

eBay determined B&P as not authentic and would not ship them.

I see all kinds of numbers on eBay and was hoping the community could discern prices better.

Finally, how accurate is watchcharts? They mark the watch at $5,400 but that seems high

seller probably just looked for box and papers to match the watch for a sale - happens too often sadly.

I'm not convinced ebay authenticators are the bible to genuine rolexes either. Personally I find the whole thing to be flawed if not adds additional layer of risk to both buyer and seller. He / she could be taking parts of the watch - who knows.

[TimeToGo]

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Can you post the ebay item number to see how it was presented (box)

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Seller was transparent that b&p were bought after the watch but both of us were under the impression they were genuine. I wonder if the authenticators saw the papers’ serials didn’t match and determined based on that.

Photos of B&P from listing attached

[AmateurEnthusiast]

I took the piece to my local watchmaker and he did a cursory look. He told me it was good to go.

[TimeToGo]

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Congrats.
Something to consider, I guess check for accuracy and I believe that is a chip on the glass by the 1 o'clock, to consider replacing.

[TuRo]

No papers shown, do you have photo of them...tbh i have a feeling I know what they will look like !!! - Reason is the inner box/cushion/wrap (and possibly outer box) is counterfeit... so they will have destroyed it.

[AmateurEnthusiast]

Interesting. No actually no photos were provided of the papers close up. I really don’t mind the b&p not coming with the watch because I am very happy with the watch itself.

Thanks

[Dan S]

Thanks for posting better photos. Obviously the watch is heavily worn, but looks legit as far as I can tell. If the dial and hands are clean, the rest can be addressed. Over time, you will get a sense for how condition affects value. If you buy a beat up watch like this at a bargain price, you can replace the bracelet and crystal, refinish the case, and have a great watch. But that will cost you about $1500, so you need to factor that cost into the price. If you're happy wearing it as-is, then it's a better value, obviously.

The whole b&p situation is odd to me. How can someone try to sell papers that are "purchased after?" By definition, papers must be original to the watch, so even if the authenticators had sent them to you, they would add no value.