Speedmaster “Ed White” 321 (Modern) - Production

[illiguy]

Anyone have reliable, latest intel on production? IIRC the total universe of 321 movements across all watches (including Platinum, Canopus and Sedna Gold, etc.) was already low, with then a subset of that total universe comprising the annual production of the Stainless Steel 321s.

Not sure if folks have talked to reliable OB or brand reps with intel.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Anyone have reliable, latest intel on production? IIRC the total universe of 321 movements across all watches (including Platinum, Canopus and Sedna Gold, etc.) was already low, with then a subset of that total universe comprising the annual production of the Stainless Steel 321s.

Not sure if folks have talked to reliable OB or brand reps with intel.

No. This number was never disclosed to anyone. Only thing we know is that Omega has the potential to make 1500 watches a year but seems like that they're not producing anywhere near that amount.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by texasmade

No. This number was never disclosed to anyone. Only thing we know is that Omega has the potential to make 1500 watches a year but seems like that they're not producing anywhere near that amount.

Thanks. That comports with what I’ve seen.

Production numbers

Omega has stated that it wants to produce between 1,000 and 2,000 watches with the caliber 321 per year. We’ve heard rumors, however, that production is rather on the lower side than on the higher end of that range. Omega does not communicate numbers (even to us). For example, we see more Speedmaster Silver Snoopy Award 50th anniversary models appearing in the market than this Speedmaster Calibre 321.

Source: https://www.fratellowatches.com/from...-special/#gref

[njlam]

I visited two Omega Boutiques in NYC this week (5th Ave Flagship/Wintergarden) and neither would add my name to the Ed White 321 waiting list. The 5th Ave Boutique said they only get 2 a year.

[Sauzo]

I picked mine up at the end of August this year and my OB which is the only one in Washington State told me mine was the only one they got this year. And they only got 2 last year for what that’s worth.

[texasmade]

Last time I went by the Houston boutique about 2 months ago, they said they haven't received any all year.

[illiguy]

Just goes to show that, even at a secondary market premium, this watch is grossly underrated. We also don’t know how much longer Omega will commit to producing the 321 movement, certainly as a halo SS piece.

Shhh … let’s keep it that way.


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[lmcgbaj]

Originally Posted by illiguy

For example, we see more Speedmaster Silver Snoopy Award 50th anniversary models appearing in the market than this Speedmaster Calibre 321.

Source: https://www.fratellowatches.com/from...-special/#gref

I don't believe that to be true. The fact is that the upside on the Snoopy is greater so more demand for that watch than the 321 from flippers. The waiting lists are huge. In fact it is much easier to get a 321 than a Snoopy. However, less flippers on the 321 so you see less for sale. Again the number we are talking here are equal to half day Rolex production so both are very rare.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by lmcgbaj

I don't believe that to be true. The fact is that the upside on the Snoopy is greater so more demand for that watch than the 321 from flippers. The waiting lists are huge. In fact it is much easier to get a 321 than a Snoopy. However, less flippers on the 321 so you see less for sale. Again the number we are talking here are equal to half day Rolex production so both are very rare.

I'm going to disagree with this. The Houston boutique received around 30-35 Snoopy's since release. They've received 5 Ed Whites since the EW 321 was released.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by texasmade

I'm going to disagree with this. The Houston boutique received around 30-35 Snoopy's since release. They've received 5 Ed Whites since the EW 321 was released.

Have to agree, the Silver Snoopy is much easier to obtain than the 321. There are simply less being produced.

[njlam]

Given that most of the OB's I have visited that claim they are not taking any more waiting list names, I guess my question is, are the people posting they are getting the call for the EW 321 buying their EW's from OB's or from greys?

[lmcgbaj]

Originally Posted by texasmade

I'm going to disagree with this. The Houston boutique received around 30-35 Snoopy's since release. They've received 5 Ed Whites since the EW 321 was released.

I was told by my local OB that 321 is a one-year wait and much easier to get than the Snoopy. I am seeing conflicting info.

[lmcgbaj]

Originally Posted by njlam

Given that most of the OB's I have visited that claim they are not taking any more waiting list names, I guess my question is, are the people posting they are getting the call for the EW 321 buying their EW's from OB's or from greys?

Make sure you call an actual Omega Boutique, not an AD.

[Sauzo]

Originally Posted by lmcgbaj

I was told by my local OB that 321 is a one-year wait and much easier to get than the Snoopy. I am seeing conflicting info.

Was talking with my OB today while picking up my Planet Ocean Summer Blue. He told me they have gotten about a 2:1 ratio of Snoopys vs Ed Whites. But a Snoopy has a longer list simply because the Snoopy has a larger audience. The 321 is more a watch geeks watch.

With that said, doing the math, they average around 5 per year of the 321 and 15 per year of Snoopy. Imo, the 321 is more special and by Gods grace, my 321 will never leave my collection.

So bottom line is both are a pita to get.

[steeevvvooo]

321 is an amazing watch and, as described above, a true watch geeks watch. The small details that don't give it away to the masses are the major appeal and I love mine. People who know a little about watches may also think it's "just" another moonwatch. It's a niche of a niche IMO.

I will hopefully be getting a snoopy very soon but that's a different beast altogether. Again, it's a bit of a watch geeks watch but more overtly so. You will still need to know a little about watches to "get" it though and a large proportion of the population will have no idea what it is.

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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Just goes to show that, even at a secondary market premium, this watch is grossly underrated. We also don’t know how much longer Omega will commit to producing the 321 movement, certainly as a halo SS piece.

Shhh … let’s keep it that way.


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That's correct. Premium is now low enough to buy IMO (under $20k).

I'm struggling with the thickness / side view. Love everything else about it. In general I wish Omega made their watches thinner. Planet ocean 600m at 12 mm for example would never come off my wrist. I'd swear off Rolex SS for that.

[DoricSpiker]

More snoopys produced however longer waiting lists for them. So in a way, everyone that has chipped in here is in some way correct! The fact is both are not easy to get hold of.
If anyone was to get offered both but could only have one, I would tell them to leave the dog at home!


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by EEpro

That's correct. Premium is now low enough to buy IMO (under $20k).

I'm struggling with the thickness / side view. Love everything else about it. In general I wish Omega made their watches thinner. Planet ocean 600m at 12 mm for example would never come off my wrist. I'd swear off Rolex SS for that.

I can comment on the thickness Brad.

For me, it wears well because it has a flat caseback and I’d say about 20% of the thickness is the domed crystal.

Yes, the thickness is the thickness, but visually it’s deceiving. It’s not a thick a wearing watch to me at roughly 14mm. YMMV

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I can comment on the thickness Brad.

For me, it wears well because it has a flat caseback and I’d say about 20% of the thickness is the domed crystal.

Yes, the thickness is the thickness, but visually it’s deceiving. It’s not a thick a wearing watch to me at roughly 14mm. YMMV

Much appreciated feedback!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Much appreciated feedback!

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[steeevvvooo]

Agree on thickness not being too bad. Speedmasters wear well to me because the side profile of the case is broken up into sections. A Tudor chronograph is about the same thickness nominally but for the short time I owned one it felt and wore so much thicker because it was slab sided.

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[cuppa_watch]

Snoopy's production is way higher than 321. Also the price of Snoopy is dropping fast on gray while 321 stays relatively stable. I've heard stories that Snoopys are trading at huge discounts over chrono24 listing prices. A friend of mine got offered a Snoopy about 3 months after buying a steel Seamaster, no other purchase history.

Don't get me wrong. I love both and wish all flippers are gone and we could get watches we all like to wear. Just providing some data points I heard for reference.

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[moon321]

The thickness on both the Snoopy and the 321 should be fine. 13,7 mm for the 321 is totally ok for me, it wears great. Mostly like every other Speedy when it comes to thickness. The snoopy has a thickness of 14,5 mm. I don't have the watch, but my guess is it's also fine. My 1866 moonphase is around 14mm. Thickness on these Speedmasters is different then on Tudors, because of the case profile.

The first year (2020) 321 production was very slow. Now coming up on 4 years of production, my guess is the total is around 4000 - 4500 steel watches and a few 100s platinum/white gold maximum.

Snoopy is 3 years in production, my guess total production up until now is around 8000 - 9000.

[lmcgbaj]

The current premiums for both 321 and Snoopy are very small. Snoopy is around 16k USD and the 321 at around 17k USD although the retail on the 321 is higher so a closer gap to the retail price.

[lmcgbaj]

Originally Posted by moon321

The first year (2020) 321 production was very slow. Now coming up on 4 years of production, my guess is the total is around 4000 - 4500 steel watches and a few 100s platinum/white gold maximum.

Snoopy is 3 years in production, my guess total production up until now is around 8000 - 9000.

I would say half of those production numbers would be a better estimate. There is no way they produced that many specially given the 1st year production was extremely slow.

[Sauzo]

Originally Posted by moon321

The thickness on both the Snoopy and the 321 should be fine. 13,7 mm for the 321 is totally ok for me, it wears great. Mostly like every other Speedy when it comes to thickness. The snoopy has a thickness of 14,5 mm. I don't have the watch, but my guess is it's also fine. My 1866 moonphase is around 14mm. Thickness on these Speedmasters is different then on Tudors, because of the case profile.

The first year (2020) 321 production was very slow. Now coming up on 4 years of production, my guess is the total is around 4000 - 4500 steel watches and a few 100s platinum/white gold maximum.

Snoopy is 3 years in production, my guess total production up until now is around 8000 - 9000.

I would also guess a lot less 321. My OB which is the only one in Washington State said they have gotten probably around 15 321 since release and about 30-40 Snoopys. My 321 was the only one they got this year and they aren’t expecting anymore this year.

[PTCDAD]

My Omega Boutique told me they get 2 Snoopy’s & 2 Ed Whites a month, but the SA has only been there for 4 months. They also said the list for both were closed.


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[logo]

Originally Posted by PTCDAD

My Omega Boutique told me they get 2 Snoopy’s & 2 Ed Whites a month, but the SA has only been there for 4 months. They also said the list for both were closed.


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Unless your OB serves a population zone of >100M, the likelihood of 2 Ed Whites per month is near zero. I have not heard anywhere close to those numbers from any other OB. Probably just coincidence they arrived during the SAs first few months.

[brandrea]

Since the thickness of the 321 was raised earlier, I thought I'd post this picture of its profile...

As you can see, a good amount of the overall height is made up in three distinct sections: caseback, mid-case and bezel/crystal.

For me, the caseback seems to nestle into my wrist and almost disappear. The midcase being "slimmer" than most Rolex I own. The icing on the cake for me, is the beautiful top hat like crystal

Notice the surface area of the caseback … it wears very low and flat. Due to its circumference this watch wears very stable on the wrist (for me).

20230817_132211.jpg20230817_132154.jpg

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[cuppa_watch]

It never occurred to me that the thickness of 321 could be a concern. It wears as well as any Rolex, if not better.

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